F8's and ph

[Neo]

Hello everyone, what a great website and forum.

For the past 2 weeks I've researching F8's and would like to get 2 for my 30g long.

My tap water has a pH of 6.5, which is below what they need. With using Aragonite sand and having a salinity of 1.005, would that raise the ph enough?

[Black Widow]

Aragonite Sand will Buffer your tanks PH to around Alkaline levels aswell as Cycling Byproducts i.e. nitrous waste (Ammonia - NH4) etc will also raise your tanks PH but in the long term you want Ammonia and Nitrite to be 0 once your tank is cycled, may I ask why is your water so acidic 6.5?

[Neo]

I'm not sure. I have well water, i guess it's just due to the location of my house.

[sevenyearnight]

It should, what is your tap water KH?
My local water supply has that pH, and the KH is virtually non, existent @ 8 - 10 ppm, so my pH was dropping below any ideal level unless I was shooting for blackwater lol.
Aragonite is what was suggested to me at that time, I believe that should maintain the KH and pH for you.

[Neo]

I dont' have a tank cycling or anyhthing. I was going to start setting things up this weekend.
I just wanted to make sure it's possible for me to have F8's.

[sevenyearnight]

I thought the nitrification process lowered the KH, which would/could then lower the pH.

[Black Widow]

I thought the nitrification process lowered the KH, which would/could then lower the pH.

No, part of the Nitrification process is the production of ammonia which is a STRONG Alkali which is then turned into Nitrite blablabla. Adding ammonia to any system will increase the pH. kH has nothing to do with the pH, as kH is a measure of water hardness.

[J-P]

ummm Ph is directly related to Kh ...

On the water chemistry I can help most easily, so I;ll digress on that first. In FW (fresh water) that has not been polluted or abused by the use of commercial buffers and such inappropriate materials, KH, alkalinity or carbonate/bicarbonate hardness, is essentially responsible for the water's pH reading. But KH is used up in normal tank processes, especially biological nitrification. Thus it is fully normal for the KH to decline over time since the last water change. All nitrate produced in the tank from ammonia results in the loss of bicarbonate in double the equivalent amount. In unplanted tanks, nitrate increases as alkalinity falls because the chemistry requires the sacrifice of alkalinity in the oxidation of ammonia to nitrate. Routine water changes remove the nitrate and replenish the alkalinity in exactly the percentages used for the water change - changing 50% of the water removes 50% of the nitrate and replenishes 50% of the expended alkalinity. Tanks with heavy algae may show less nitrate, as will planted tanks, as algae and plants require nitrogen and take up ammonia and nitrate (few can take up nitrite, it is harder to handle safely in bio-systems), but the KH is still depleted even if the nitrate reading/titer is low. Removing nitrate by plants or other processes does not in any way remove the requirement for water changes. They are still required equally or even more so by the need to replace all the depleted minerals used by the plants or algae.

[sevenyearnight]

*JP beat me posting lol.

[Flutter]

Yep, you've got things backwards there.

Anyways, yes, it's possible to have F8s. Use an aragonite substrate and perhaps put some in your filter as well.

[Neo]

thanks everyone!

[RTR]

Thank you JP! To confirm, the oxidation of ammonia and nitrite to nitrate uses up KH, every molecule of ammonia oxidized to nitrate requires two molecules of bicarbonate to be consumed. Nitrification destroys KH. It is the nature of the process and occurs in all tanks with biofiltration. Low BW is poorly buffered, we have to add sources of alkalinity in non-trivial quantities. Aragonite is the easiest and best such source.

For water as KH-poor as you report, I would second Flutter's comments but I would add a second filter loaded with just aragonite in mesh bag(s). Rinse the bags at least weekly.

Edit: FWIW, and don't get your hopes up too fast, but another hobbyist is trying to determine the optimum KH for F-8s. If he can do so, it will be a big help to us all. We will hear when the work is completed.

HTH

[Pufferpunk]

I'd love to see an article on this!

[RTR]

The guy is laying out the study now, so it will be a while. But he promises to share. Studies do eat time, but this projected for months, not years.