Should i get my GSP another GSP buddy?

[I.Puff.Too]

idk..mine are still babies and have plenty of swim room in my 55G. Although I will have a 120G or so for them by next may. Within a few months I'm going to bump it up to full marine, add a sump, skimmer, and some LR...Probly some macro in the sump and make it a sump/fuge...so the 55 will have good WQ...

[Pufferpunk]

So you agree that a 55g isn't large enough for 2 adult GSPs?

[Flutter]

jus85411, first of all i know what you mean, but i already have 2 filters running

So are you saying that if you pee in the toilet, slap a filter on it and go to drink it we'll all think you're crazy. But by adding a second filter to that toilet bowl it becomes drinkable?

Same idea

[sevenyearnight]

Not only is it not large enough, if that gsp is timid, a second one will bully him, and he may not get enough to eat, and he might get hurt. I think another fish in there (55 g) should be something that won't take advantage of a timid fish.

[I.Puff.Too]

Yes, I do agree it is not large enough for the 2 adult GSP's. Secondly, I'd get a total of 3 GSP's and a 120G tank so one of them is not constantly bullied....to death.

[sevenyearnight]

Balki is all the gsp I need.

[I.Puff.Too]

I need more than 1 GSP, I'm more interested in them interacting with each other and their surroundings than me!

But, it's all personal preferance...

[linbeg]

Honestly, i think that the 30g rule is for when he fully matures to his 6' length-and since the GSP lifespan is about 10~11years, i believe he can thrive in my environment.

[linbeg]

jus85411, first of all i know what you mean, but i already have 2 filters running

So are you saying that if you pee in the toilet, slap a filter on it and go to drink it we'll all think you're crazy. But by adding a second filter to that toilet bowl it becomes drinkable?

Same idea

What are you talking about? It's not the same idea, or your statement is just a bad analogy.

[I.Puff.Too]

The 30G rule isn't only for adult GSP's, their growth can be stunted...

[linbeg]

The 30G rule isn't only for adult GSP's, their growth can be stunted...

it "can" be, but under pristine water conditions and a variety of food choices/supplements i believe my puffer can thrive.

Have you seen this video yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o67sLgEE0Hc
I believe this tank is smaller than a 30g tank, yet the puffer has grown to almost adult size; i believe this is because of the perfect water condition the owner provides.

[jus85411]

in order to keep pristine water conditions for a GSP in any small tank, you would have to do many water changes a week. the puffer in that video is far from thriving. look how scratched up he is, he barely shows his green and i think he looks a little uncoordinated while swimming around. he probably is in a tank with high levels of other stuff the average keeper doesnt know to test for.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sy300#p/u/5/TcXKub0qWZs ----- you cant tell me hes thriving. and i can almost guarantee hes dead by now as the vids were posted in '08 and '09. people are sadly misinformed on this fish on a daily basis, on purpose or not, pet shops just dont know the info they should. 30 gallons is recommended for adult size, but anyone here who knows any better would tell you it should not be kept in anything smaller through its life or there is a great risk of stunting the fish or exposing it to high levels of toxicity of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate as their waste builds up without water changes.

flutter had a very good analogy right now. lets put you in a pool you barely fit in, you cant stand straight up on the bottom and reach the surface. lets let you live there for a week, regular meals and all but you have to use the pool as your toilet as well. over the week your "bioload" increases in the pool each time you use it as a bathroom. lets say instead of doing a water change after a week, i just add a filter on thinking you would be ok. i didnt take out any waste and replace it with fresh water, i just added a filter on for extra water movement(cause essentially thats all a filter does, move water and create safe surface area for bacteria to live on and in)... it doesnt do the same thing. your waste will still build up enough to make you very sick if not kill you over time. same thing in a fish tank. the fish sits in its waste until you physically change out the water, not add on a filter. a filter can only do so much and remove so much from the water. nitrates arent filtered out, they have to be removed out, and exposure to nitrates over a period of time WILL kill your fish without a doubt

honestly, you should be listening to people trying to help you here, take our advice and you will have a rewarding puffer owning experience. the average person that you would ask outside of this forum wouldnt even know this fish is a brackish/marine fish. most if not all of us have had GSP's, or at least a puffer of some sort. and the members like pufferpunk, rtr, xray, and flutter all have been here for a while, know more than most people on here about the real care and how to make your puffer thrive. puffers are more likely to be effected by bad water conditions because they dont have scales, exposure to the smallest amount of bad water can make your puffer have a turn for the worse. if the fish could live in a 10 or 20 and thrive, then thats what our recommended tank size would be, but in a tank that small there is (a) too much waste being produced by them plus they are a big fish when full grown and (b) too little water voume for any toxic water to be diluted into to make less toxic and livable until it gets exchanged out. no one here would steer you wrong or tell you unnecessary information

[Pufferpunk]

BTW, those recommended tank sizes given are for a single puffer (no tank mates) & 50% weekly WC.

[RTR]

A 55 does not hold anything like 55 gallons. I would not try to house two GSPs in less than a 75, and larger would be better.

I always over filter, but all the filtration in the world does not provide swimming space for proper exercise. Someday folks may actually understand that filtration and water volume are two very separate and distinct things. Both are necessary for proper growth and heath.

I do feel very strongly that "moving a fish up in tank size as it needs it" is one of the best ways around of guaranteeing that fish will not reach full adult size or configuration.

HTH

[linbeg]

in order to keep pristine water conditions for a GSP in any small tank, you would have to do many water changes a week. the puffer in that video is far from thriving. look how scratched up he is, he barely shows his green and i think he looks a little uncoordinated while swimming around. he probably is in a tank with high levels of other stuff the average keeper doesnt know to test for.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sy300#p/u/5/TcXKub0qWZs ----- you cant tell me hes thriving. and i can almost guarantee hes dead by now as the vids were posted in '08 and '09. people are sadly misinformed on this fish on a daily basis, on purpose or not, pet shops just dont know the info they should. 30 gallons is recommended for adult size, but anyone here who knows any better would tell you it should not be kept in anything smaller through its life or there is a great risk of stunting the fish or exposing it to high levels of toxicity of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate as their waste builds up without water changes.

flutter had a very good analogy right now. lets put you in a pool you barely fit in, you cant stand straight up on the bottom and reach the surface. lets let you live there for a week, regular meals and all but you have to use the pool as your toilet as well. over the week your "bioload" increases in the pool each time you use it as a bathroom. lets say instead of doing a water change after a week, i just add a filter on thinking you would be ok. i didnt take out any waste and replace it with fresh water, i just added a filter on for extra water movement(cause essentially thats all a filter does, move water and create safe surface area for bacteria to live on and in)... it doesnt do the same thing. your waste will still build up enough to make you very sick if not kill you over time. same thing in a fish tank. the fish sits in its waste until you physically change out the water, not add on a filter. a filter can only do so much and remove so much from the water. nitrates arent filtered out, they have to be removed out, and exposure to nitrates over a period of time WILL kill your fish without a doubt

honestly, you should be listening to people trying to help you here, take our advice and you will have a rewarding puffer owning experience. the average person that you would ask outside of this forum wouldnt even know this fish is a brackish/marine fish. most if not all of us have had GSP's, or at least a puffer of some sort. and the members like pufferpunk, rtr, xray, and flutter all have been here for a while, know more than most people on here about the real care and how to make your puffer thrive. puffers are more likely to be effected by bad water conditions because they dont have scales, exposure to the smallest amount of bad water can make your puffer have a turn for the worse. if the fish could live in a 10 or 20 and thrive, then thats what our recommended tank size would be, but in a tank that small there is (a) too much waste being produced by them plus they are a big fish when full grown and (b) too little water voume for any toxic water to be diluted into to make less toxic and livable until it gets exchanged out. no one here would steer you wrong or tell you unnecessary information

First of he's already in full marine, also i'm using a berlin method-LIVE ROCK and a sandbed which is typical in reef aquariums. This is a natural filtration that eliminates nitrates in the aquarium via the beneficial bacteria living in the live rock and anaerobic bacteria in the sand bed.It's normal and natural. In reef aquariums for example, because the effectiveness of this filtration (depending on the bioload of the tank-in my case one) you can go at least a month without water change and keep nitrates,phosphates and ammonia at 0. It helps the do WC, but the berlin method is more natural. And no,physical removal of nitrates isn't the only method to reduce it, because that's what the live rock and the sand bed does.