I have a 30 gallon tank with 2 figure eight puffs, and three spotted puffers, and a plecco. My nitrate levels are out of control. I have never had this problem before, and have probably been pretty lucky.
water parameters:
pH 7.4
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrates 160ppm
temp 79
salt 1.006 ppt
* pH is usually higher bout 7.8
This aquarium has been set up for going on one year, before that it had been set up for nearly two years. The tank was moved in a day 25 gallons of the original water moved with me, and no one died. I only tested for pH and ammonia, as In the prevous two yrs, I never had a problem w/ nitrates. Musta pressed my luck, never again.
Feeding and water change schedule: I feed the fish daily, and rotate what they eat. Mostly Frozen foods.
In the last week since discovering I had a problem, Monday I cleaned the tank, took out about 4 gallons (30g tank) of water. Tuesday siphoned the gravel at 7pm added 5 g of spring water. Fish still looked unhappy... 1:00am siphoned gravel added 5 g of spring water. Fish seem a little perkier.
Two biggest fish seem still stressed. (Tuesday) my 4" fig8 was laying on its back and side, but as soon as you would go up to the tank he would perk up and swin around, Today (wed) not laying on its back any more and ate blood worms eargerly. But, My 3" very round spotted puffer is stressed, his belly is dark (fading to black) Unhappy fish. I do not want my fish to get any sicker, and they were very hungry after not feeding them yesterday, which I hope is good.
However, I need to get the nitrates down, The test kit I am using is a freshwater (Doc wellfish Brand),
Any advice on getting the nitrate levels down?
Nitrate Levels--Now What?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
I think it's time to set up a second tank.
The two figure 8s ought to be fine in the 30 gallon, and maybe the pleco depending on what type it is (i.e. - a smaller species, although I'm surprised it's doing well in brackish water).
The spotted puffers (I assume Green Spotted Puffers) need 30 gallons per fish according to the experts on this board who've kept them (I have not). They also need much more brackish water than figure 8s and will do fine when full size even in full SW. I'm sure someone else with GSP experience will chime in with more informaiton.
I could be wrong, but it sounds like everyone has just grown big enough that you can't keep the nitrates down because your bioload is too high with 6 messy fish in that tank.
Eric
The two figure 8s ought to be fine in the 30 gallon, and maybe the pleco depending on what type it is (i.e. - a smaller species, although I'm surprised it's doing well in brackish water).
The spotted puffers (I assume Green Spotted Puffers) need 30 gallons per fish according to the experts on this board who've kept them (I have not). They also need much more brackish water than figure 8s and will do fine when full size even in full SW. I'm sure someone else with GSP experience will chime in with more informaiton.
I could be wrong, but it sounds like everyone has just grown big enough that you can't keep the nitrates down because your bioload is too high with 6 messy fish in that tank.
Eric
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Pufferpunk
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I absolutely agree that your bioload is above capabilities of that tank size. I to not agree at all to keeping a pleco in BW. You will be needing around 90g for the GSPs as they will grow to 6" in the next year or 2. Find another home for the pleco.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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YBeNormal
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...and increase the size and frequency of water changes while you work out new homes for some of the current inhabitants. Most of the more experienced people on this board will recommend 50% water changes each week, and that recommendation is routine maintenance for tanks that are not experiencing high readings as yours is!
Start with 50% water changes at least once per day until you get the readings lowered and monitor closely after that.
Start with 50% water changes at least once per day until you get the readings lowered and monitor closely after that.
How long are all the fish?
Totally second what everyone else has said, and another strong recommendation is that you feed every other day...that'll cut down on a lot of the bioload.
This is not an alternative to daily water changes and new tanks, though...they're essential if you want to save your fish.
Pami.
Totally second what everyone else has said, and another strong recommendation is that you feed every other day...that'll cut down on a lot of the bioload.
This is not an alternative to daily water changes and new tanks, though...they're essential if you want to save your fish.
Pami.
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RTR
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First move out the pleco, they do not belong in BW. That will also reduce the bioload on the tank. Do all the water changes suggested, but start no more than 20-25% the first few days. With nitrates that high, you are also in danger of osmotic shocking the fish with too latge a change at first. From 160 to 80 ppm is a massive difference. Start slowly and build up to the 50% partials over several days.
The alternate day feeding schedule will help also.
The alternate day feeding schedule will help also.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
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YBeNormal
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Good catch RTR! I guess I overreacted to the high levels and forgot that the rapid change could be just as bad--if not worse--than the high nitrates.RTR wrote:With nitrates that high, you are also in danger of osmotic shocking the fish with too latge a change at first. From 160 to 80 ppm is a massive difference. Start slowly and build up to the 50% partials over several days.
Thanks and a spring water question
Thanks to everyone for the responses... I truly wish I would have found this website sooner, as I have found some very useful information. My Puffers are my little obsession.
Today, I gave away the pleco, at the LFS, probably a good move. Looking into buying a new tank and separating the 2figure eights from the 3GSP. So that is going to be a task to get that up and rolling.
To answer a prevous question my biggest fi8 is about 3.5'', robust, & has a great smile
, the other one is only 2" and still fairly tiny. Also, two of the GSP are round 2.5" buggers, while the other one is a not nearly as round 2 incher. I bought all of these puffs very small. In the last year the biggest fig8 has trippled in size! yowza!
I siphoned the gravel, & 5 g water change today.
My question is I was told to replace the siphoned water with spring water from the store, and thinking about it now, I am wondering why? What water is the best water to put in the tank? The puffers do not seem to mind it, and after replacing 20 g's of their water with it in the last 4-5 days, they do seem to be doing better, anyhow. The tap water here has about 1ppm of Ammonia (sometimes) and pH of 8.2.
Still waiting however for an acceptable nitrate level... not there yet, all puffs are alive and greeting me still.
Today, I gave away the pleco, at the LFS, probably a good move. Looking into buying a new tank and separating the 2figure eights from the 3GSP. So that is going to be a task to get that up and rolling.
To answer a prevous question my biggest fi8 is about 3.5'', robust, & has a great smile
, the other one is only 2" and still fairly tiny. Also, two of the GSP are round 2.5" buggers, while the other one is a not nearly as round 2 incher. I bought all of these puffs very small. In the last year the biggest fig8 has trippled in size! yowza!I siphoned the gravel, & 5 g water change today.
My question is I was told to replace the siphoned water with spring water from the store, and thinking about it now, I am wondering why? What water is the best water to put in the tank? The puffers do not seem to mind it, and after replacing 20 g's of their water with it in the last 4-5 days, they do seem to be doing better, anyhow. The tap water here has about 1ppm of Ammonia (sometimes) and pH of 8.2.Still waiting however for an acceptable nitrate level... not there yet, all puffs are alive and greeting me still.
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YBeNormal
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Re: Thanks and a spring water question
Welcome to Puffer's Anonymous where the 1st step is admitting that you have a problem. Steps 2-12 of The Puffer Forum's 12-step program involve lots of reading, investing in more tanks and buying even more puffers to satisfy the endless addiction!becksters wrote:My Puffers are my little obsession.
Aged and treated tap water is usually fine for these fish. Most of us use and recommend Prime to condition the water. If you also have space to devote to aging the water for a few days before using it, that is even better.
If you haven't done so already, you should start by reading some of the excellent articles in the Library section of the forum. I'd recommend that you start with:
- Introduction to Puffers
The story of Puffy, a Green Spotted Puffer
The Care & Feeding of Green Spotted Puffers and
Figure Eight Puffers
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Pufferpunk
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suvattii
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