GSP sick..dying?

[ilygoseeashrink]

1. I went to the LFS today and everything read normal ammonia:0, nitrite:0, nitrate:0, salinity:1.008, temp: 76-80F.
2. 20G I have a GSP, Berny, got him about two months ago. He's the sick one. :c I have a highfin pleco and two mollies.
3. I feed them everyday except Tuesdays usually around 11-12 in the afternoon. He eats snails, clams, mussles, and frozen/thawed food. I do 50% water changes every week normally on Saturdays. I recently just added General Cure to the tank because I found out his sunken/skinny tummy was the cause of i.p.s.
4. I had a yellow lab chiclid in my tank, but took him out immediately when I saw that he was stressing Berny out. I just bought another GSP today hes in his bag floating around at the top of the tank waiting to go in, just in case something happens to Berny.
5. The aquariums been set up for about 3-3.5m ago and was cycled with my mollies, I didn't put Berny in till a month after the tank was set-up though the parameters were great three days after set-up.

When I first bought Berny at my LFS he always had the sunken tummy, I didn't know till a few days ago that it was caused by i.p.s, but I'm now treating him for that. I'm using General Cure and I started it yesterday by treating the tank, not soaking his food. Should I do that instead? I haven't seen any changes in his tummy at all. Also in the past five days I've noticed that he's always dark and his tummys never white. His green spot on his heads neon whenever I've got my face up against the glass staring at him. He eats and swims around, but not as much as he normally did, now he just lays on the rocks and because he's so dark he almost blends in. Also he's been favoring his right fin, I've checked it out and it looks normal, no fin rot. I can't figure out whats wrong with him, help!

Note: He's my first puffer, but I did a lot of research on what he was gonna need as far as parameters, diet, etc..

[purplecandle]

Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0 and Nitrite 0 are not great water parameters. Unless your tank is very heavily planted, your tank is not cycled. A tank cannot cycle in 3 days even if you had a magic wand.

Here is info to cycle your tank~
library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/
library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/

Next, your tank is too small for a single GSP, let alone with additional tankmates.
Here is some info on GSPs
library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/

Here is why they can't have tankmates~
library/puffer-care/alone-but-not-lonel ... fers-solo/

If he has sunken belly, then he may have parasites, but you have to treat his food not just the tank
Here is info on treating for IPs in puffers
library/hospital/internal-parasites-pre ... treatment/

The puffer you have floating in a bag needs to come out ASAP. A bag cannot hold enough water to handle the bioload of a puffer for more than a few hours. HOWEVER, your tank is probably not ready for another puffer. Find some large container (have a lid they can jump, fill it with clean water and put the puffer in there until you can set up another tank.

Berny's symptoms sound like complications from an uncylced tank. What kind of test kit are you using? It is very hard to believe that your numbers are 0,0,0.

[Blaine]

First off,...If a tank is properly cycled it should be producing Nitrates....that is normal. I would invest in some liquid API test kits.

Second,...GSP`s are high-end brackish to full marine fish. the mollies are fine as tank mates but the pleco needs to go. Also the 20 gal tank is too small for even 1 GSP (min 30 gals) so I suggest returning the second GSP if possible or getting a bigger tank(50-60 gal) asap (like yesterday)

You will also need some marine salt and a refractometer to properly keep this(these) fish

[Pufferpunk]

Is it possible to return the 2nd puffer & all those other fish? The 20g may hold your single puffer for now but will need a 30g when he's >2" & would be much happier in a 55g alone, as a 6" adult. There is something wrong with the LFS's testing, because after that time, you should be showing nitrate. Get your own test kits for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.

Soak his food in Jungle Parasite Clear.

[ilygoseeashrink]

Okay well first, why does my pleco need to go? Is it because he can't handle the salinity? If so, he's doing extremely well, I'd say he's the healthiest fish in my tank. I should have been more specific with my LFS water testing, I only have the ammonia test and don't have the money at the moment to buy the nitrate and nitrite tests or a bigger tank. I actually do plan on downsizing and keeping one or two puffers in a 10G tank when I go to college. I know that they need 30G per, but Berny was doing just fine in my 20G with my mollies and pleco, swimming around being all happy and green. But back to the LFS water testing, I've never done the nitrite or nitrate. I do know for sure that my ammonia is 0, but for nitrite and nitrate I'm not sure which ones blue and which ones purple, but thats what the tests came back as. If you could let me know if thats correct that'd be helpful.

PufferPunk, where exactly can I purchase Jungle Parasite Clear? Also, I already have General Cure, which I'm sure isn't the best choice, but since I already have it do you know how much I would use of that to soak his food?

Blaine, a refractometer? Can you explain or sending me somewhere that can?

Purplecandle, I purchased Mac an hour before I posted this, but I've done what you've said and I'd like to get him in my tank, yes I know 30G per puffer.

Can anyone tell me more about why he's laying on the rocks and is more brown than green, apart from what has been mention? Also his fin..?

[J-P]

Well, the pleco will certainly outgrow that tank. Puffers and other fish are also traditionally a bad mix. The puffer may be harassed or just not comparable.

If he is listless and unresponsive, it could be ammonia poisoning or stress from the move. Regarding the fin, was he that way at the LFS? Did you inspect him while he was in the bag?

Aslo you mentioned an SG legel, do you remember what kind of salt you put in there?

[ilygoseeashrink]

I got the highfin pleco, which is suppose to be smaller than a reg. pleco, I believe.

It can't be ammonia poisoning because there is no ammonia, I did the test myself, its at 0. For his fin, he wasn't like that at the FS.

For the SG I used Instant Ocean.

[zookey]

My understanding of General Cure is that it is for external parasites like ich... not internal parasites that your puffer seems to have. He is laying on the rocks and brown because he is stressed and feeling poorly from a combination of an uncycled tank and the internal parasites. I don't know what is up with his fin, but if he has been subjected to high Ammonia, Nitrites, or Nitrates I have been told they can cause neurological issues... maybe causing him not to be able to use the fin. I could be wrong though.... I am sure someone will come by and correct me if I am wrong.

[Flutter]

The pleco needs to go because the tank is too small and it can't tolerate the salt. It may be doing fine now but plecos are also very tough fish and it will not do fine long term.

If you can't afford test kits then it may be best that you return some of the fish. Puffers are sensitive and you really do need test kits with them as most health problems stem from water quality issues. Not only can a test kit tell you if the tank is healthy but it can also pinpoint what any potential problems may be.

10gal isn't even enough for one of the puffers. If you must downsize then please find them new homes or return them to a reputable fish store. It is not fair for them and it will kill them. Either in the short term with water quality issues or the long term with stunting, exercise, water quality, and disease issues.

I know things may seem fine right now but you have a lot of experience puffer keepers helping you and they know the keys to successfully keeping your wet friends long term. It's only fair to the fish, they were taken out of the wild for us to keep them cramped in tiny tanks.

Blue I believe is nitrite = 0 and purple would either be high nitrates or high nitrites. My test has nitrates as yellow to red.

You can purchase the Jungle Parasite Clear at a fish store. Even Petsmarts have it. I'd get rid of the general cure and do a very large water change ASAP. I don't know what's in it but puffers cannot handle many medications and it sounds like this one is bothering it.

A refractometer or hydrometer is used to measure salinity. They can be bought at any fish store. You NEED one to keep a GSP with any success.

He's on the rocks because he is extremely unhappy and stressed.

[ilygoseeashrink]

So, if I do a large water change remove the pleco and the mollies, keep my two puffers in my 20G. Treat Berny with Jungle Parasite, will they last for a few months till I can either find a bigger tank or new homes? :C

[Pufferpunk]

That's about it.

[Blaine]

I wouldn't keep them in the 20 for more than a month...two is pushing it IMO

you will need lots of filtration and have to do twice weekly 50-75% WC's to maintain good water conditions.

If you don't have them alreaady, purchase a good set of API test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates and test the water frequently to avoid avoid toxic shock. If the levels get high...more WC's

[ilygoseeashrink]

Here's a picture of Berny, apart from the obvious IP's, does his coloring seem off?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9279291@N0 ... otostream/

[Pufferpunk]

Awww... he looks so sad... Yes, he's not as bright as he should be.

[El Scorpio]

Have you noticed any dark spots on his belly?