Sand query for a semi lurker...

[soggydrysuit]

Hi everyone, it's been a while.

I have a Takifugu ocellatus (this animal has been kept by another board member for over one year) in a coldwater brackish tank (temp 18C, sal 1.010, amm 0, ni 0, na 5, pH 8.2) with an external canister filter and UV, internal filter box packed with mature foam and alphagrog and ceramic media, two skimmers just for surface water movement and oxygenation plus a powerhead with venturi going full blast.

My question is I only see the puffer half dug into the sand at the times I would expect it to (sleep time), but not all of the way with just the head sticking out. The substrate is two inches of honey sand mixed with miracle mud and aragonite. I stir this twice a week with tongs and there are trumpet snails in there.

The fish is about three inches long.

I know at least two of you out there keep these demanding fish - just wondering about this behavior?!

Admission: I've only had the T. ocellatus for a few days and will ask the previous owner about this.

Hope I've done my homework with this fish (mainly Neale Monk's comments but the previous owners care tallies with his) - it's feeding like a trooper on vit enhanced bloodworm, mysis and earthworms. Does not like shrimp for some reason. It did feed on bloodworm (brekkie) this am despite some power problems (salt water dripping onto the only plug connection in the room that was on the floor) which were quickly reshuffled. It's an amazingly energetic fish - no suprise they crash if they go off of their food... It's only a lurker in sleep...

The minimum 55g tank idea is a good one - they need space to charge around. Possibly the most energetic puffer if I may say so... It thinks it's a zebra danio!

Unless you approach the tank and the fish comes over for a look. There are not many fish I've kept that do that! This is aside from feeding postures...

[soggydrysuit]

I also note this puff's big eyes in comparison with the body and streamlined shape. Adapted for running up the Yantze (there is another name for this river) estuary against strong currents in turbid waters maybe...

It's kept alone, btw... I'd just never seen one in the fish before. Ever.

Admission 2: it's in a 30g tank - a sixty gallon tank (in US measurements) is avaiable if I swap things about. I'd just set that up as a FOWLR system. Rats, but if that is how it has to be then so be it.

Make no mistake these Takifugu ocellatus need to be chilled both in terms of stress levels from people wandering past the tank and temp. No-one goes in my garage very often so maybe the 60g (you know,pp, the 240l) on it's steel frame would be a better bet in the summer only 20C max in there.

[Pufferpunk]

My puffer's sand bed is 3-4" & he stays buried 90% of the day. Chopstick comes out around 6pm every night looking for dinner & stays out until around 9pm. He dives back under the sand if I approach his tank too quickly. So far, he's been eating live blackworms, FD plankton, people shrimp & I think, earthworms. He's in a marine reef tank (SG 1.026) with corals, a false perc & a hawkfish.

[soggydrysuit]

Thanks for responding so quickly!



I think I've read that 'Chopstick' is a Takifugu ocellatus - well done you in that case!

[Pufferpunk]

YEP!

[soggydrysuit]

As you say - solution to pollution is dilution. I made up 2x 40l barrells of water last night, one of which I will use tonight....

Mine paces. Lately (we are talking days here) actively looking for food.

Not unusual given the settling period - but does stop pacing for food or a look at me.

I'm treating this T. ocellatus as a cold water brackish animal - if I dare - might you have any comments on that?



Very nice, very dificult....

I've only a small ytb in the marine tank. What do you think: 240l alone but at 15-20C?

[soggydrysuit]

So, do you think it's normal that mine only buries itself to a half body 'height'?

It sounds as though the puff is still stressed form it's move.

I'm going to have to stress it further with a water change - I'm detecting ammonia at 0.25ppm.

I'd made up enough for an 80l change at the weekend and the sushi is pacing = stress

going offline to sort that...

You must keep yours at reef temps?

[Pufferpunk]

Mine is in the coldest room in the house (other than the basement) with no heater. I have no idea what the temp is in there. I should get him a thermometer but I can't make it any colder than it is, so what's the difference???

I'm treating this T. ocellatus as a cold water brackish animal - if I dare - might you have any comments on that?

IMO, they are best kept in marine. It would help with your ammonia problem too. I've got him with 70lbs of live rock & only do WC about 1x/month.

Have you seen this?
library/puffers-in-focus/takifuguocellatus/

[soggydrysuit]

Yes, thanks... I've scoured the web for info on this species. Not much out there apart from the seminal comments from Neal Monks. And your link

Ten years ago, I would not have contemplated a cold water brackish tank! Fit's in with my ethos of species tanks, low stocking and as many different water conditions as possible. I think I've got the lot!

Hmm, LR. I have about 40kg of that in the 240l tropical marine tank with just a YTB damsel in residence at the moment. If I take the Takifugu up to full marine what do you think is the best way to acclimatise the rock to the cooler temp?

Stick the LR in a vat with warm tank water plus powerheads and let it equilibrate to room temp?

I'd need to take out all of my media and add probably another powerhead to the puffs tank.

That means I'd be running the 240L tropical marine on conventional filtration. Or I could slowly get some more LR for that tank - 40kg would leave no swimming room. 20kg sounds about right for the Lido tank.

Unless again I put the Takifugu (named Sushi by previous owner) in the 240l in my cold garage with the 40kgs of LR.

Hmm, that sounds like the way to go.

It's a pretty special fish and I could put the 240l tank next to our food freezer. Ideas are forming!

The garage just hit's 20C in summer - I might want 15-18C in the puffers tank. I need a beer chiller!

[soggydrysuit]

Finally had time last night to do a 2/3 water change using 1.010 water made up the night before last, aerated and allowed to equilibrate with room temp at 16C .

I note the puffer is not pacing as much this morning as it has been - the water change must have helped. I've had this fish for a week now (previous owner kept it for one year).

'Sushi - UK', to differentiate from the one in the best vid I've seen of these is into breakfast - he or she definitely expects to be fed in the mornings and I try later with a different food.

That's vit enriched bloodworm (not much nutrient, just to keep it interested) for brekkie, then mysis or live musell in the shell or earthworms later. I'll keep trying to expand diet.

Next time I go to the beach in a week or so, I will be collecting small uk shore crabs for it and anything else I can find. Mollusks, clams etc. I have cold water marines in my garage and could hold enough for a month or so at a time.

PP, would you euthanise and freeze live food for one of these? I'm thinking of IP's. Will be getting some Kisuri Discus wormer in any case. I won't use it unless I need to. The Takifugu's poo looks fine for now...

Aagh - every puffer keeper needs to be a poo expert! A chemist, an electrician, a biologist... it goes on. In this case thermodynamics for chilling - fridges might not do, Peltier cooling may not have enough cooling power so I'm left with beer chillers. I know that will work long term - there is a shop in the UK that I've seen using large beer chillers to cool down display tanks of Pot Belly seahorses so that might be the way to go.

Probably cool enough were we are for now. I can make the decision to go for the larger tank an a month or two. In the NE of England it always gets colder before spring arrives.

I think I actually need another large tank for the garage - I could then add base rock and use existing bacteria from my native marine tanks to populate it. That itself might take a couple of months to mature with fishless cycling. I have found that cold water marine tanks take an awful lot of time to cycle. Things can go wrong in terms of ammonia quickly and bacteria in cool systems take a long time relative to trops to respond.

[soggydrysuit]

Oh, by the way: does anyone know if reef tank chillers might be good enough to pull down at least 55g of water by ten or fifteen degrees centigrade?

Just asking!



If I do go to full marine for this fish, I understand there will be an oxygen penalty: salt water at 1.026 holds less O2 than at 1.010 but using massive aeration and LR may offset this in terms of better water conditions. I have measured 8ppm O2 in this lido tank at full salt levels and at 25C; more should be possible at 18C. O2 saturation etc... I've seen literature including Takifugu ocellatus being collected from waters containing at least 5ppm O2 in the Yantze...

Pic for you (not that good) - he really does not like having his photo taken... starts pacing or hides in the tangle of plastic plants in there. A few smooth rocks, no sharp edges and no glass thermometers...

This animal is up and about most of the day, only buries partially at night. Stress behavior?

Sushi 1.jpg

Sorry for all of my questions - I'm feeling my way with this one!

[soggydrysuit]

Nearly gave up trying to log in with too many long in attempts (my first today or for a week or so for that matter) and the authentication is atrocious. Sorry. Is that a C or a G etc?!!!

Anyway, the Takifugu is still with me for now. Seems in good health so far, poo, gut bulge shape and feeding. Will eat most offerings now but still paces unless I'm there to feed at least once a day with small feeds of bloodworm, vit enriched shrimp etc. It then stops and looks at me.

I just thought I'd report I've moved today the tank to a colder area because the temp where it was in the lounge was hitting 20C. Temp in the new area is between 8 to 10C at the moment, so I added a 200W heater set to lowest setting of 20C but it will end up less than that for a while. Anything from 8 to 15C is possible with no artificial chilling. Heating to keep it where is was at 16 to 19C for now.

I didn't want to change anything very much on move day.

If I can control it ... ! Different but much colder environment.

Still at 1.010 s.g. for now. The transfer took three hours so I replicated existing conditions apart from a 60% w/c.

Params were temp 17-20C, sg 1.010, Ni 0, Amm 0 (I think: I still never trust the API fw/sw test for some reason), pH was down to 7.8 but Nitrate was 10ppm which was hopeful from a tank set up a month ago using exisiting filter media from my other but trop brackish tanks at the same sal. Massive areation and conventional filtration - venturii drive powerheads are still in place.

If you read this, PP, I'm just trying to get the animal somewhere where I have a chance of a stable cool temp of 15-20C for the summer.

Chopstick is OK?

[Pufferpunk]

Chopstick is doing great, despite the tank being in our living room, which means it's probably around 72 degrees. Other good news--he allows tank mates. I guess I'm lucky with those kind of things... 1st the fahaka & now this fellow.

[soggydrysuit]

Thanks for that, PP

I was warned that this one might not accept tankmates. It's shredded the tail on a GSP at it's previous owners, so I'll go along with that.

Helps me keep the water conditions in check also!

I'll have to be a bit careful with the possible cooler temps because the filter bacteria should work more slowly...

Still cooler water should equal more O2 around. This tank is still circulating at his accostomed washing machine velocity (about 20 to 30 times turnover per hour with two skimmers and ventri air injection for aeration) - didn't change that either. The flow rate would be fine for an SPS reef. NOOOO! I'll stick with the Fugu ....

I'll keep you posted and am still aware of your LR/Full marine suggestion.

I'm also sticking to the previous owners name of ' Sushi' - it's bad luck to change the name of a boat at any rate!

[Pufferpunk]

I asked everyone i know who has this species & was warned about how viciously mean they are.