A couple questions about F8s?

[fugu99]

Im still getting used to our puffers behavior. Two of them, actually. They were tankmates in the store and now are the only fish in their tank, and they spend a lot of time together. One of our puffers has occasionally exhibited a weird coughing behavior, his belly expands and shrinks slightly when he does it, I wonder if hes trying to spit up food? They are very weird and hard to figure out at times. We havent had trouble with them eating, they are eager eaters and beggars. They also spend time lying on the bottom on their bellies, which the people at the petstore said they were just bored or resting.

I was curious about some things, like how much should I feed them, if I feed once a day only six days a week? Ive tried to gauge what a 'slightly rounded belly' is but it doesnt seem to take much to get there, and I want to make sure Im giving them enough food.

Also, do they make toys for puffers, or things to distract them and keep them from getting bored? I notice that they swim up and down the glass often, and take breaks, and go back to it for a while. Its a bit disturbing, because our other fish (mollies, cichlids, platys, guppies in a different tank) do that usually when theres something wrong with the tank.

Are there any behaviors I should look out for? Anything that would be negative?

A strange question this, but... we havent actually seen our puffers poop. With our other fish, we see it all the time, just about every feeding time we notice it. Do they not poop as frequently? Do they regurgitate?

Im trying to get as much info as I can as a new puffer parent. Id appreciate the advice! -Laura

[jtbadco]

"Surfing the glass' is a common behavior in puffers. You can keep them from getting bored by adding plants, rocks and other tall decorations to break up the sight lines and give them places to explore. You could also add some guppies of mollies if you have the room and enough filtration.

I have my F8 in with a Dragon Goby, BumbleBee Gobys, and a few guppies. The tank is planted with water sprite and mangroves and has large rock caves.

Feeding once a day, 6 out of 7 days should be fine....and a slightly rounded belly is perfect. It is very easy to over-feed and besides being hard on the bio-filtration it can cause constipation and death. A serving about the size of a pea is sufficient for a 2-3" F8....don't worry, they wont starve.

My F8 sleeps on a tall rock at nite,...other than that he is almost always in motion. Good coloration and a nice white belly are signs of good health. Plenty of snails to trim their teeth is necessary.

Puffers do poop. (Everybody poops) ...however it tends to be a short fat poop rather than long and stringy like other fish.

Keeping the water clean (plenty of filtration and regular WC's) and maintaining a steady sg of around 1.003-1.005 will provide a healthy environment and extend their lifespan.

Asking questions is a great way to start your fish off right. Research is your best friend in fish-keeping.

HTH
Blaine

[Sara0229]

I feed mine 6 of 7 days also. I feed at roughly the same time of day and in the same spot (makes pick up a bit easier). I know some people find it fun to hand feed but I would recommend against that. Reason being they'll associate your hand with food and when it comes time to do some tank maintenance WATCH OUT! My son got a little nip when our puffs were new and still "learning" and he said it was a mild nip but still painful. So I can't imagine what they'd do if they thought you were food! OUCH! I use a long pair of plastic tong things I found in the plant care section. They are long and I can easily pick out left overs. I also have been feeding warmed frozen bloodworm's. Now if you really want to see them poop this is a great food for that, mine always poop big dark poops after. The other food I give is shrimp. I got them at the counter in the grocery and stick about a third of one in a veggie clip. They seem to like to graze and I leave it in over night and remove what's left in the am. But I mainly feed snails at this point, well feed snails. Some people feed clams or mussels but I have yet to try these.

As for tank mates I have BB Gobi's and mollies. Most of the BB's disappeared at first so if you add these I'd say buy more than you plan on having. At least that's what I did. The mollies are new so I'm still not to sure how that is going to go. They seem annoyed with them at this point but it does give them something to do.

Sounds like you're doing well, keep the questions coming! Good Luck!

[RTR]

IMHO & IME, bloodworms and shell-on shrimp are not an adequate diet for F-8s. They do not have enough crunch to keep their incisors worn down. Add home-cultired snails, either common pond snails or ramshorn snails.

[Sara0229]

Yes RTR is right, I guess I should have added I feed gut loaded rahmshorn snails as thier staple diet!

[fugu99]

Thank you all for the advice. I didnt receive an answer for the weird "coughing" behavior my one puffer was doing, though. His belly shakes and he opens his mouth and does it three or four times. This has happened twice, two seperate days. Im thinking its just odd behavior but Id like to know if anyone else has seen it.

We got some bloodworms and a syringe the other day and fed them those the first time today. It was great, they actually came up to the surface and ate from the syringe We also have tried them on crickets from the petstore, one of them seems to be into them and the other didnt really care for them. Its kinda nasty hearing them crunch up the crickets. XD But its fun to watch them hunt. The store people also gave us more snails so I have them in my guppy tank to breed. Im hoping to get some VitaChem to soak their food in, bloodworms and the like. Still planning to go to the grocery store and get some frozen seafood.

We stuck our fingers into the tank today to see if the puffers would give us a nibble like my fiances cichlids do. We were scared though because we know they have teeth. Their lips are really soft but I expect if theyd been hungry and decided to take a bite we would have been really unhappy!

Oh, Tony said he finally saw one of them poop. It was after we gave them the bloodworms, so yah, nice and dark. haha. Its just good to see because I was worried.

[RTR]

Because puffer anatomy is so highly modified from standard fish, things like a cough (really clearing their throats and gills) look a bit different from standard fish. They have no ribs, so swallowing and expelling water look different from similar processes in conventional fish. Puffers also have no hard operculum - their gill covers are soft and very flexible while most fish are not. Puffers also clear their "throats" and pharyngeal teeth by back-flushing out through the gills with water. You will see larger bits of snail shell spit out forward through the mouth, but finer stuff from the pharyngeal teeth gets flushed out through the gills.

[fugu99]

Ah! Thank you SO much for answering this question! All the research I could have done on puffers and I might never have found an answer to that. It does occur to me that they exhibited this behavior after eating snails! Wow, they dont have ribs? Tony and I were surprised to hear that.

[RTR]

Their modifications for inflating are extreme. that is part of why they are so interesting. Their ski is really strange, their fins are modified, their gill covers are soft and stretchy, their stomach is built strangely - like their shin, even their DNA is strange - they have the cleanest DNA known - no or very, very little nonsense DNA between sites.

It also makes them the only fish I know where you can see all the food in their gut.

And don't forget, their teeth grow like rabbit's teeth which is why they really need crunchy food.

[fugu99]

How long do their teeth get where I should worry? Ive watched a tutorial on how to trim them yourself if necessary although I dont know if I COULD, unless it was necessary. XD... But I dont want my puffs to starve! Does anyone have pics of overgrown teeth? In one of my puffs, I cant see his teeth very well, and the other has very obvious chompers.

[Pufferpunk]

There's a dentistry article in the library with pics.

[RTR]

If you use proper crunchy foods, F-8s will never require any dentistry. Once I became a common pond and ramhorn snail breeder, no F-8 ever required dental plate work, and even SAPs only very rarely needed help.

[fugu99]

Yes, Im trying to get snails more into their diet. Im attempting to stock enough snails in my guppy tank so they begin breeding, which brings me to some exciting news... I discovered what HAS to be snail eggs in the tank today. I found a clear gelatinous mass filled with transparent orbs attached to one of the decorations in my tank. It was easy to see because I dont have too many decorations in there at the moment. I detached the mass because I have very hungry little platys and guppies that will eat anything, and I think the silly snails made the eggs way too accessable. I scraped the mass into one of our water test tubes and Im floating it in the tank to keep the water at the same temperature. Right now I can see small brownish dots in the eggs. Im not entirely sure whats necessary to cultivate the eggs to hatching, but Im trying to keep the eggs safe. I have very happy active snails in my guppy tank, and theyre surprisingly quick. Although, I really couldnt tell you what type they are. Garden-variety, Im led to believe. I have some curly ones that look like unicorn horns, and little brown speckled ones that move quickly and look like conch shells, sort of. They have a distinct swirl. I believe the eggs are from that variety, because the unicorn horn ones like to stay dug into the sand substrate for the most part.

[hadla]

the unicorn horn snails are malaysian trumpet snails and the other ones seem to be just regular pond snails. do they look kinda like a mystery snails shell, just longer and thinner?

[JRC3]