Need help with stalled fishless cycle

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Candice, sounds like you are going the right way,imo. Set my 1st SW tank up back in 1992 and had the LR thing going on but years later I started using LS and did much better with that and the protein skimmer was a big plus too. I think using uncured LR was the best and fastest way to cycle a SW tank. Ammonia peaks so fast then using the protein skimmer and cured LR and LS finishes it perfectly,imo. But adding the farm raised bacteria (some calls it) in the bottle into your tank and filter is a plus from how you are doing it. Btw, AC HOB filters are the best because they can hold much more bio media over the others,imo. Just a hint .

[RTR]

High ammonia levels suppress the nitrite-oxidizers. That can help kill them off for folks who OD ammonia initially and and markedly slow down their redevelopment. High ammonia levels are never necessary IMHO & IME.

Please do remember that what your doing is not at all like waste release by fish and inverts. Livestock does not hold it all in and dump once per 24 hours. Ammonia release by the gills is 24/7/365 at levels which hobby kits cannot detect. Only in captivity or in severely polluted waterways would you ever see such ammonia levels in the wild. You can develop nitrification bacteria in filter media or LR without ever seeing an ammonia positive test by hobby kits - it just takes longer to get mature colonies. And it requires much more expensive test kits, field grade tests.

I would guess that your ammonia-eaters are mature colony size and your nitrite-eaters are not quite. Continue dosing at moderate ammonia levels (certainly 3ppm max, better at ~2ppm) until the nitrite-eaters/oxidizers are mature. It helps to keep the nitrates from being too high - it cost more obviously, but it will keep the LR healthier overall. LR does a lot more than just the ammonia to nitrate cycle.

HTH

[Pufferpunk]

AC HOB filters are the best because they can hold much more bio media over the others,imo. Just a hint .

It also holds onto nitrate.

[jmiller]

Since you have all those Cichlids I would do a massive media "squeezing" from those tanks to kick start everything.

Won't do me any good... cichlids are in FW; this tank has LR and is at 1.024sg. Any bacteria from the squeezing wouldn't survive the salinity.

I think I'll quit commenting until I go back and read the thread from the beginning.

[Pufferpunk]

Maybe start a thread in the marine forum?

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

AC HOB filters are the best because they can hold much more bio media over the others,imo. Just a hint .

It also holds onto nitrate.

Yeah maybe so but good cleaning helps with that,imo .

[Pufferpunk]

You'd have to be cleaning that our 2-3x/week--PITA. Why not just use SW filtration & be done with FW products?

[c333davis]

Please do remember that what your doing is not at all like waste release by fish and inverts. Livestock does not hold it all in and dump once per 24 hours. Ammonia release by the gills is 24/7/365 at levels which hobby kits cannot detect. Only in captivity or in severely polluted waterways would you ever see such ammonia levels in the wild.

This occured to me, too, though I didn't know for sure. Thank you for proving confirmation!

Continue dosing at moderate ammonia levels (certainly 3ppm max, better at ~2ppm) until the nitrite-eaters/oxidizers are mature.

Sounds good. The nitrite-eaters do seem to be catching up, based on the test results I'm seeing.

Why not just use SW filtration & be done with FW products?

Someone on The Reef Tank recommended that I pull the HOB filter, too (and expressed that opinion with some degree of exasperation, even before welcoming me to that forum. I told him/her that the folks on The Puffer Forum have been awesomely supportive and patient and I hinted that s/he adopt a new, more friendly tone with newcomers. LOL

Tone aside, it does sound logical, so I may pull the HOB filter. I've been using it more for the additional water movement than anything else. I do have 2 Korelia nano 425s in the tank, so I do have a good current in front of and behind the LR...

Seems like if I'm going to pull the HOB filter, I should do it before I introduce my puffer so as to not subject him to a spike in ammonia from the removal of the bene bac in the filter cartridge. I may pull it when I do a wc today to lower my nitrates.

As for starting a marine thread, I'll do that once I introduce my puffer... Seems a shame to let the 5pgs of this thread go since we've all put so much love into it.

[c333davis]

I think I'll quit commenting until I go back and read the thread from the beginning.

Do continue to chime in if you have something to share! I know you'll be going through the brackish-to-marine changeover at some point... when you eventually quit buying tanks and stuff. LOL

...I may pull the HOB filter. I've been using it more for the additional water movement than anything else. I do have 2 Korelia nano 425s in the tank, so I do have a good current in front of and behind the LR...

Seems like if I'm going to pull the HOB filter, I should do it before I introduce my puffer so as to not subject him to a spike in ammonia from the removal of the bene bac in the filter cartridge. I may pull it when I do a wc today to lower my nitrates.

Ok, I did a 80% wc and removed the HOB filter. I added a Korelia nano 240 to keep water moving near the top of the tank. Am I correct in assuming that surface movement helps maintain oxygen levels in a SW tank as it does in a FW tank?

[jmiller]

I think I'll quit commenting until I go back and read the thread from the beginning.

Do continue to chime in if you have something to share! I know you'll be going through the brackish-to-marine changeover at some point... when you eventually quit buying tanks and stuff. LOL

Funny. By any chance did I marry your sister? You and the female in my house sound alike.

[c333davis]

By any chance did I marry your sister? You and the female in my house sound alike.

Ha! Just teasing you with your own words. I'm definitely not one to criticize about buying tanks and equipment. Jim brought our first two tanks with him when he moved in, and now we're up to eight... and I'm just discovering SW and LR. Full-blown multi-tank syndrome here. Good thing I have a 12 Step program...

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=25405#p273523

[Pufferpunk]

I added a Korelia nano 240 to keep water moving near the top of the tank. Am I correct in assuming that surface movement helps maintain oxygen levels in a SW tank as it does in a FW tank?

What you really need it for is to move detritus around the rocks so the skimmer can grab it.

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Candice, you could add a HOB/Protein skimmer combo. I done it with small marine tanks in the past with no problems. There are all kinds of brands out on the market now days to choose from. Ebay has all kinds including any online fish supply shops. Even been seeing them more and more at lfs's. Just an idea to buy 2 in 1 if you dont want to go out and buy 2 different filters,imo.

[jmiller]

If you don't mind adding additional equipment to the back I would keep the HOB filter going (minus media) for water movement, surface agitation, carbon or turn into a mini fuge. Have you made up your mind on a skimmer yet? I did a metric buttload of research and ended up with a Eshopps PSK-75H. Once I get it hooked up I hope it lives up to the hype.

[Pufferpunk]

I'm looking to sell this sump/fuge/skimmer: $100 + shipping.