The quest of setting up an F8

[joiya]

Hey guys, got a few questions about setting up an f8 tank, specifically in relation to a website I found through the puffer forum.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html

They appear to have a general set up for different habitats of FW, BW, and SW. In the BW section, the brackish river, they have combinations including mollies with GSP or BBG with F8s, or ceylon puffs with mollies. From what I've read here in the articles and on other websites, unless you have sufficient room, puffers do well on their own or with specific tankmates like BBG for GSPs. Unsure if that is true after running through the article above. I ask this because I have a 55g FW set up with a herd of mollies, but I kinda doubt a GSP would do well with them since I've heard they can get aggressive when full grown, despite the article's claim.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the article and need a gentle correction ^^;;

I was hoping to get an F8 for my empty 20g with some BBGs, since GSPs get so large and a 20g would be too tight a fit for them. But when the article mentioned a combinations of ceylon puffers with mollies and BBGs, I admit, my heart started fluttering at the idea, though I think my herd of mollies is too much to add another species...

Apologies for the scattered post, but I definitely want to do right by the puffer and research and do everything I can to have good conditions for one when I get it - thanks for reading guys

[J-P]

in that article it has that big OR dividing what the tank would be able to hold.

Notice how mollies are not with either species?

I highly doubt a Ceylon will go with mollies. Notice their fish count (3) etc, and the min tank gallon recommendation on this site differ quite a bit? I wouldn't go with Badman's info. BBGs usually do fairly well with puffers. A quick search will show that some can mix, most can not but BBGs are a popular choice.

[joiya]

Thanks for unconfusing me Yeah, I had mixed feelings in the first place, and I think I'm gonna go with my original place of a few bbgs with a f8 in a 20g.

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, the Ceylon needs even a larger tank then the GSP. Sick with your plan.
library/puffers-in-focus/fig8/

[RTR]

As one of the folk who contributed to the creation of that section - PP may have been in on that as well, there were several of us back in the day - I think the introduction and ecotype expansions are good, but I strongly disagreed with the stocking even that long ago. Personally I would not myself suggest most of the suggestions made by the owner of that site, and would not set such tanks myself. The one exception I would make is that I would and have set mixed tanks with F-8 puffers and bumblebee gobies. They tend to ignore the other species and the BBGs clean up after the F-8 without seeming to be in danger of being killed or eaten themselves.

Suggestions for GSPs and for Ceylons are things that I would coinsider poor to awful. IMHO and IME,both those are not fish for tank mates and are all too often under-housed seriously - along with being overfed. Neither situation is good for the fish.

In a 20 (long form I hope), I would not do more than a single pair of BBgs with a single F-8, and I would not do that without having a sump attached. To me it just not enough water volume for the fish mass involved. In a 30 long I would be much more comfortable with that combo, and might allow some BBG offspring to stay in the tank should they survive. We are talking about a 20-year tank setup there - to me there is no point in setting that without a good margin of safety from the extra swimming space and water volume. Fort short-lived fish, it is fine to set a short-life tank. For long-life fish, why cut corners? you get grace periods by having more flexibility in upkeep schedules and the pay-off in having a specimen who will outlive most dogs.

all IMHO & IME, YMMV

[joiya]

Thank you for the much needed information - it's definitely pointing me in the right direction. I'm coming into the puffer hobby from a fw point of view - previously I've spent the last four years raising fancy goldfish. So while I'm pretty well versed in HOBs and know a bit about canisters, I'm murky on sumps. Are they like overflow boxes? Do they add volume to the tank? Are there that you would recommend? I want to set up the puffer tank sometime next month while I have the time off, and once I get money in late January spring for the sump. I do plan on getting argonite sand for subtrate, and I have caves and logs at home that are clean and easy to rearrange into places to explore.

From my understanding, F8s and BBGs live in brackish water - do they require a protein skimmer? I've got my eye on a nice one that is touted to work for 20g, so thats no problem. And I have a reputable SW pet store up in Kearny Mesa that has live rock and extremely healthy live stock that is well taken care of - the price reflects this, but its very much worth it. I was also planning on using an aquaclear 50 filter that has a gph of 220, which is 10x the 20g. And I'm looking at an eheim submersible heater to keep the water warm enough for the f8.

I'm trying to cover all the bases before I start anything, so keep the questions and knowledge coming

[J-P]

no skimmer for low end brackish water

A sump is like a separate tank that acts as a filter and increases total water volume for the tank but doesn't increase the swimming space.

[Pufferpunk]

As one of the folk who contributed to the creation of that section - PP may have been in on that as well

Yep, I was in on that one but it was quite some time ago.

[RTR]

The broad definition of a sump is in fact simply a linked pair of tanks. Conventionally one is used as a display for the specimin(s), while the second serves various purposes - most often housing filters and other non-aesthetic support equipment, but it also increases the operating volume of the linked system. Originally this technique was used in public displays, to keep the public-view area free of gadgets and equipment and boosted the working volume of the system which 'concentrating' the items of interest - the fish or inverts - in a smaller area. Hobbyist soon followed suit. The second tank with support equipment was commonly below the display, while in pubic aquaria it was generally behind the display. It really matters little where the second tank is positioned except as that affects water flow between the units. This double (or multiple) tank use can make the display look better and access to the working equipment easier and simpler at the cost of extra pump(s) and hoses or rigid tubing.

Personally I am addicted to the multi-tank setups and rarely set any single tank systems anymore. Any tank set as display is likely to have at least one more tank linked to it if not several. The increase in water volume alone is quite useful. lf you need 15 gallons to house the display fish, a 20-long provides a bit more than that volume. Adding a second 20-long beneath it means extra volume which can be kept twice as clean easily with much less gadgetry visible in the display tank - at the cost of one more pump and an overflow and some tubing. I love the extra margin of safety and the increased ease of aquascaping the display, and consider the extra costs cheap insurance. Amazingly, such set-ups are for me simpler and faster and easier to maintain. The initial expenditure is a bit larger, but the operating costs are only slightly more. The reduction in upkeep time more than pays for itself to me - I'd rather look at the tanks than work on them. I have operating tank sytems pushing 20 years constant operation which still to me look quite good and which require less of my upkeep time than most single-tank setups, far less than operating each of those tanks individually..

The first few such setups you do obviously require extra planning and even some experimentation. But once you know what type of filters and other equipment you like best for certain fish, life just gets easier and easier. Upkeep is reduced to simple repetitive steps that you do without much though. The specimens are healthier and live many times longer than their wild kin. The one disadvantage is that you don't get to buy new fish often unless you trade off an existing setup's livestock to another hobbyist.

In sum, what looks to a novice hobbyist like a complex system is in fact a setup for simpler and easier maintenance which happens to work better and longer than almost any single-tank setup.

[joiya]

I think you've sold me on a multi tank set up XD Though Most likely I would clear up the space under my 40g and set up a 20g or 30g sump set up for my fancy goldfish - ah, the motto of a goldfish keeper: water changes water changes water changes.

As for the puffer - I talked it over with my mom, and after showing her video of various puffers, she said she would move her mollies to a different tank and give me the 55g. Would that be enough space for a GSP with some BBGs? Or can BBGs coexist in a full marine tank [eventually] with a GSP?

[Pufferpunk]

What a great mom you have!

GSP will eat BBGs. Best to wait until the puffer is in SW & then try a tomato clown or a school of fast-moving damselfish.