Disoriented Puffer, Swimming almost vertically

[Flutter]

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 (this is not unusual, the val eats it all up, test was performed properly and does show positive values in other tanks)

Tank is a 40gal long and houses 6 irrubescos, 2 males and 4 females. Feeding is a mix of items including raw frozen seafood, bloodworms, mysis shrimp, FDBW, red shrimp, and lots of snails. They get fed 2-3 times per week but those are big meals so that they can all get their fill. Water changes are every 7 days and are approximately 60%. There have been few changes in the past 2 months when two more females were added. About a month ago we treated for BGA with erythromycin and cut back a large amount of the vals as they were covering a decent amount of the water surface. Tank has been set up for 6+ months (I think closer to 8?). Water is dechlorinated with Prime and has a little squirt of blackwater extract.

Our smaller male is swimming more vertically (they all do this regularly in the area with the most current) and is resting on the bottom a lot. When on the bottom he seems to have problems staying completely upright. Doesn't have that problem while swimming. His colour is changing rapidly, he was very pale but then went back to normal colours as we chased him with a net. He was eating but isn't since we put him in a breeder net (hopefully he'll start again soon). We put him there just in case the larger male might pick on him. Aggression is very very low, especially since putting two more females in. By appearance he is not the weakest fish, the smallest female is.

[Pufferpunk]

Have you tried burping?

[Kyle D]

We haven't because he has absolutely no problems staying on the bottom of the tank and horizontal on the bottom. He's swimming head up and occasionally swims head down to get food or to look around a bit but most of the time when he eats he sits on the bottom, scoots/drags himself forward and sucks in the food.

I just tried feeding him some blood worms and he aggressively ate the first one off of the tongs and then aggressively ate a large bunch that I put in on the opposite side of the breeder net. He also seems to list to one side from time to time. He's also fanning his tail out quite a bit which is odd behaviour for him when not eating.

[Pufferpunk]

Well it's a good thing that he's eating! I'm gonna PM the Mentors on this.

[Corvus]

Do you add vitamins to the food on a regular basis? One possible explanation I'd throw in is nerval damage of some sort. Such can be related to vitamin deficiencies. However, I read they are eating fresh snails, which should contain enough vitamins if fed sufficiently themselves.

[Kyle D]

Yes, all of the frozen foods are soaked in Vita Chem and more recently in Selcon as well (so the food is soaked in both) as we believe it to have a higher amount of HUFAs and they eat the same frozen foods as the discus. All the others are doing perfectly fine.

[Clowntje]

Is it possible that he bumped against the lid or the glass? I had something similar with a figure 8. who bumped really hard against a lid of the tank when it was scared by something.

[Dadof4]

Are they eating the Vals? Toxicity? Just a thought.

[Flutter]

We have seen bites out of the vals and having run into something is possible but they are pretty mellow guys. He is still alive this morning, his colour is better, and he really wants out of the net. He's trying to force his way out and the others want in. Unfortunately he isn't back to normal. We're going to do a water change this morning.

ETA: Kyle took a video and we'll upload it. Apparently the little female wanted to be the star of it.

[Pufferpunk]

Isn't being kept in the net making him more stressed?

[Kyle D]

We think so, he'll be released at the water change and we'll keep an eye on him to see if the others are picking on him. However, the occasional one is trying to bite him through the net.

Here's the video, sorry about the quality but I shot it on my phone.

[Flutter]

We've pulled out all of the plants except for the windelov fern. We'll try and find another plant that will work. I rearranged the driftwood a little bit and Kyle will pick up more in an hour to make sure that the tank is kept very busy. We're considering leaving it with just the fern. We do have some smaller java ferns that we could attach to the wood. Should they be able to handle the switch from the discus tank without dying off? It's about 5F warmer and high light with EI. We will add nitrates to the puffer tank so at least the plants can have food.

He's doing the same as this morning and he was able to eat his fill in the net before being released. He may have to be netted for all meals until he gets better *fingers crossed*. He did get a good meal last night and this morning though which is good He was keeling as well in the net, definitely eager to show off to the other male.

He was bought as an adult. Can puffers suffer neurological issues when they're old (like strokes)?

[Clowntje]

Maybe u dont wanna hear this, but his behaving looks so much like my figure 8. And sorry to say we helped him to the fish heaven after 3 weeks

What it had never came clear but i think it was the knock he made against the lid. like he had a brainbleed or something. no signs of stress, eating fine, but trouble with swimming or keeping uprights.

I really hope he pulls trough.

[Flutter]

That's unfortunate It's worrisome too as we're about to go away on vacation. We leave in 3 days. It is possible that he may have hit some driftwood at some point. I do hope we don't lose him, he's a great guy. I love these puffers, they're so wonderful.

I think we'll get some ferns moved in later today. At least they'll create soft hiding places.

[purplecandle]

I hope he makes it. Flutter do you have a spare tank you could set up from him when you are gone. If he passes on in your main tank and your not there your water quality will be an issue for the other fish..