White spots on colomesus puffers....pls help

[Ladybgemini]

Hi all, this is my first post here, i was sent here from the aquarium forum....

I have a 60 litre tank, 0 ammonia, nitrates and nitrites, ph is 7.4. Established for close on 9 months, one real plant split into several bits up on the bottom and plenty of smooth gravel and artificial plants to break up the tank.The temp is normally at about 26 degrees celcius. I have 2 fluval internal filters

I have 3 1" SA Puffers in there and a sucking loach.

I bought some ramshorn snails about 14 days ago and have them in a breeding trap in the tank. Plenty of babies in there now... (this maybe where the problem came from but i'm not sure..)

on friday last week i did a 20litre water change, gravel cleaned front section of tank and treated new water with tap safe and made sure it was the right temp before adding it.

About 3 hours later i noticed what looked like tiny bubbles on the puffers but on closer inspection they are tiny white spots...I called the shop that sold them to me and he suggested it could be micro bubbles so i removed the air inlet from the large fluval that created these bubbles..He told me to call back on Sunday if there was no change....

Sunday came and my poor fish are plastered with these spots, two more so than the other one.... Sucking loach not affected at all....

I was told to add 180g of aquarium salt and increase the temp to 89 degrees... this seemed sooo drastic to me, so i opted to add the salt slowly as my box suggested 3 rounded tables spoons was the correct dose. I added another dose of 3 flat tbsp later on in the day once i was satisfied there was no ill effects from the first lot.

I have turned thermometer up slightly and the temp is on 30 degrees celcius at the moment...

I have lowered the water level slightly to allow the filter water to cascade into the tank to create more oxygen but tonight one puffer is sitting on the bottom of the tank and the other two are hovering at the top. I have never know these fish be still in the two months that i have had them so its worrying to see one on the bottom...plus they are all still covered in white spots.....

I feed them a mixed diet of prawn, mussel meat, bloodworm, krill, brine shrimp, all frozen and fed through pipette so no waste left in tank at all and i have been feeding them every couple of days until their tummies are plump but not fit to explode.

Any advice and help is greatly appreciated

[Pufferpunk]

Sorry this had to be your 1st post but really glad you found us! This particular species is very prone to contracting ich and/or velvet, when moved to a new environment. It sounds like you are treating correctly.
Here is an article on treatment: library/hospital/fwich/

Also, your tank is only large enough to keep one of these puffers. This species likes company of conspecifics, in a shoal of 3 or more, so your numbers are good but you'll need to upgrade very soon.
library/puffers-in-focus/sap/

One more article for you to consider: library/hospital/dentistry/

It would also help us for you to answer all the Qs above in RED.

[Ladybgemini]

They will be moved into a 120litre tank in the new year when i upgrade that one to a 5ft tank and this 60 litre is going to be my hospital tank..

Thanks for the reply, can you tell me what the life span is of ich...how long before i should start to see an improvement.

I can't understand why they suddenly got it now, been blaming myself for adding the snails 14 days ago....

Also, which questions did I not answer lol, my screen keeps jumping up and down while i'm typing and typed half of that post without being able to see while i was typing lol x

[purplecandle]

She wants to know your water parameters..ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. Your water change schedule

[Dadof4]

Actual numbers for the water parameters would be helpful and any recent changes. You say there is no nitrates, that could mean there is a problem as all tanks should have a small amount of nitrates as the end product in the nitrogen cycle. Make sure you are preforming the nitrite and nitrate tests according to the directions with out deviating from them and really shake the bottles well. These are the two test that are done wrong most often (I've messed them up multiple times because I didn't shake them well enough) Ich is an opportunistic parasite that healthy fish generally can fight off. Fish that are stressed have a lower immune system and are unable to ward off the Ich. Things that can cause stress are all the things listed in Red, something amiss with those could be the cause of the sudden outbreak. Right now I can see one big stressor and it's the tank size. Once you get them in a larger tank, as you plan to do, that should take a large amount of stress away and they will be healthier fish.

As for treating it, it sounds like you are on the correct path but I would think to bring the temperature up a touch higher 31C and add an airstone to the tank, warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen than cooler water.

[Pufferpunk]

I'm afraid as long as all those fish are housed in a 15g tank, there's going to be a lot of stress in there.

[Ladybgemini]

Actual numbers for the water parameters would be helpful and any recent changes. You say there is no nitrates, that could mean there is a problem as all tanks should have a small amount of nitrates as the end product in the nitrogen cycle. Make sure you are preforming the nitrite and nitrate tests according to the directions with out deviating from them and really shake the bottles well. These are the two test that are done wrong most often (I've messed them up multiple times because I didn't shake them well enough) Ich is an opportunistic parasite that healthy fish generally can fight off. Fish that are stressed have a lower immune system and are unable to ward off the Ich. Things that can cause stress are all the things listed in Red, something amiss with those could be the cause of the sudden outbreak. Right now I can see one big stressor and it's the tank size. Once you get them in a larger tank, as you plan to do, that should take a large amount of stress away and they will be healthier fish.

As for treating it, it sounds like you are on the correct path but I would think to bring the temperature up a touch higher 31C and add an airstone to the tank, warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen than cooler water.

Ammonia is 0,Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is now quite high. the card just says 5 10 20 etc and a colour next to it, I would say mine is on 50 yet on friday when i tested it was between 5 and 10.

I do a small weekly water change and one a month i rinse out filter media from one filter and next month the other filter.

The only recent things to change in the tank are the addition of the snails and two of the plants in the tank were sprouting so i removed the plants and split them up and re-planted them in the gravel.... I also used a different water safe, It was Interpet Bioactive Tapsafe, in the past i have used tetra min or nutrafin.

I already have an airston in the tank, a 12" one at the back of the tank.

The store that i bought them from assured me they would be fine in the tank i had, i wouldnt of bought them had i known they wanted a bigger tank, i have 5" of fish in there atm so assumed that the store wouldnt sell them as it looked a proper pro set up shop, many stores here in the uk and very good comments about them from people i talked to about them:-( \The fish have always seemed healthy and happy in there, always swimming about and investigating the decorations, always coming to the front to look at you when you go to look at them and for over 2 months not a problem at all with them....

Puffers are looking a littler happier today, temp is on 84....they was fed yesterday so not feeding today....

but i guess i am now doing a water change to bring down the nitrates.

How much salt do i need to rplace and what size water change do u recommend....i dont want to stress them out if possible.....i csnt actually see what i'm typing now, the screen keeps jumping to the top of the quoted post

[Ladybgemini]

If I can get my hands on a bigger tank for these guys in the next couple of days is it ok to move them or will that stress them out too much? Also, what is the kind of size tank that I need to be looking at for them...

[Pufferpunk]

15g for the 1st one & 10g for every other one. Add more if there are extra fish. I'd say a 55g (4' long) would be great for them (could add a couple more for a nice shoal of 5), they like a long tank for swimming. Move everything over from the smaller tank & add more gravel to the existing stuff.

[purplecandle]

SAPs need 15 gallons each so that is 45 gallons...but go ahead and aim for a 55 gallon because it will be easier to find a 55 gallon and probably cheaper...especially on craigslist.

I am unsure of the needs for the loach. I have heard things like they are schoolers and that they can be aggressive towards other fish.

[Ladybgemini]

15g for the 1st one & 10g for every other one. Add more if there are extra fish. I'd say a 55g (4' long) would be great for them, they like a long tank for swimming. Move everything over from the smaller tank & add more gravel to the existing stuff.

Shoot! Most I could of gotten in short notice was 3ft tank

I think I am gonna call the shop I had them from and tell em wot i think!!! I hate seeing my fish poorly and I wouldn't intentionally put them through this!

[Pufferpunk]

You should! Don't be too surprised if they tell you we're wrong. Maybe print out the article we have here on them.

[Ladybgemini]

SAPs need 15 gallons each so that is 45 gallons...but go ahead and aim for a 55 gallon because it will be easier to find a 55 gallon and probably cheaper...especially on craigslist.

I am unsure of the needs for the loach. I have heard things like they are schoolers and that they can be aggressive towards other fish.

When I had just the puffers in the tank the bottom and ornaments became green so the shop told me to put the pair of suckers in there with the puffers, tbh they all got on ok but the two suckers together was too much so I put one back in the other tank, they are aggressive but he keeps the bottom clean for me and doesnt bother the puffers and vice versa, plus i cant really move him out into my other tank aand risk my other fish

I'm in the UK so US gallons isnt something i'm used to, what is it in Litres? I dont even know what craiglist is lol.

[purplecandle]

If a three foot is all you can do, then that is better than the 15 gallon. Your SAPs are still juvenile, so the 3 foot may be ok for a short while until you can upgrade again.

[Ladybgemini]

You should! Don't be too surprised if they tell you we're wrong. Maybe print out the article we have here on them.

I'm totally expecting them to tell me you are wrong too. TBH its shocked me that it is right, they are such small fish, they hardly use all the space they have at the moment and for a 4foot tank, 3 1" fish are soon going to get lost lol or at least that what the reason that i didnt doubt the shop when they said they would be ok.....

At most, i think they should offer me a hefty discount on a tank big enough for these poor babies..... They are hanging in there for now but I love my fish to have the best, they get better looked after than i do and i'm always being moaned at by family to stop spending money on them....

Thanks for all your help, I will call the shop in the morning and see what they say.