Emaciated little DP. IPs or Malnutrition?

[J-P]

Waret Perams:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20-30
Temp: 77F (25C)
Ph ..?? Don't test for it anymore
Tank size: 30 QT tank with 3 DPs
Water changes: once every second week of aprox 25% Water top off (evap) every second day.

Feeding: Here is the tricky Q:
I fed them cherry red shrimp. They chased them but didn't eat them. Tiny baby snails. Larger snails crushed. Blood worms soaked in Kent Marine "Zoe"
Note **I have seen them hunt, harass and poop, but I have NEVER actually seen them eat ** So I have no idea what they like / don't like and what they are eating.

On Oct 8th I purchased 4 DPs. Being as small as they are, I moved my 2 tiger barbs out of the QT tank and into my main display. I moved the DPs in. They were fine up to Nov 16th. One got caught behind the breeder net while (what appears to be) hunting a shrimp or nail. I then adjusted the net so that it would not sit flush with the tank wall and have about 1/2" room to spare.

2 of the Dwarf Puffers seem fine. They are active, well rounded and patrol the tank regularly. 1 was always a little shy and always hid. Today while changing the floss in the intake I noticed that he/she has become deathly ill.
As a matter of fact, I'd be surprised if it made it through the night. Today, I transfered it to the breeder net and placed the net a little closer to the filter but not so much that it will cause too much of a disturbance.

I tried to feed it a couple blood worms, soaked in Zoe, garlic and a drop of paraguard. **One drop for 3 cubes

It seems disinterested and as you can see from the last pic just rests at the bottom of the net.

Although I am prepared for the worst, I hope for the best.

Any insight would be appreciated.

[J-P]

just a couple more comparison pics of the other 2 DPs

[JRC3]

This sounds all too familiar to me. My little female held on for over a week before I had to put her down. She looked as bad as your little one and lasted for a long time that way. I hope your story ends much better.

Here is the thread if you have extra time and want to see what other members offered and what I did to try and save the little DP.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23989&start=0&st=0& ... lit=female

Good luck.

[J-P]

Thank you for the link!

I have a feeling mine is also female.

I just did a Paraguard Dip. She struggled quite a bit. I let her sit for about 30 seconds and then transfered her back to the net.

JRC3: after re-reading your story, I wonder if there IS some sort of condition that afflicts female DPs.

[JRC3]

Well after all was said and done, it turned out that the one that died may have been the DP that was starting to show signs of being male. Though I kept and keep calling it a female to keep things clearer. IDK why.

Also, when it wouldn't eat I doubled the IP tab treatment and once nearly tripled it in and attempt to kill the IPs. I'm talking about adding it to the water as directed and not to the food. At that point I felt I had nothing to loose because it wasn't eating and going to die and I had to take harsh measures. If you do this be sure to add extra aeration as it seemed to either deplete the water of o2, or the fish just needed more because of the med. IDK, I just found her struggling at the surface to get air the first time I did it.

I had great luck treating my other 2 DPs by sprinkling crushed IP tab over brine shrimp and letting it sit for 10 minutes. I found that if I sprinkled too much they wouldn't eat it so I cut back just enough to keep it palatable. That brings up another point; If you thinks your sick DP does have IPs, and I think so, I would go ahead and treat the others as a precaution.

Good luck. It gets so damn frustrating when they won't eat and you can't get the meds in them. But it isn't the fish or your fault.


And your time line is just like mine. I treated for IPs when I first got them and everything seemed fine. Then at the 5 week mark the problem started.

[J-P]

Did another Para Guard dip... he/she didn't like it at all.

I also added 1/4 teaspoon of instant ocean. I wouldn't say these guys "perked up", but more like "panicked". The other 2 seem to be ok, and coping, if a little hyper. The sick one seems to be expending energy needlessly darting around looking for nothing.

More crushed snails mean nothing, blood worms remain uneaten...

Added 1/4 cap of Mealfix but I think it is beyond that point now...

[J-P]

Well as I thought.. she passed. Woke up this morning and she was gone. I put her in a cup and waited till my chores were done and did the deed.



Upon first examination, I saw no signs of IPs.


Here is the belly shot:


From there I made a slit from the anus to roughly the sternum. As you can see the intestinal tract is completely void of any food or waste.


This is a shot of the anal area, There appears to be 2 or 3 small worms there (notice the stitch like marks along the intestine), but I couldn't confirm that. They were only visible under the microscope.


This is a shot of the intestinal tract (sorry I butchered that job):


Here is the same shot zoomed in:



As far as I can see no IP's were present. Those 3 little cross hatches gave me some concern, but not the parasites I was expecting to see.

Sad day

[PolishPuff]

Great job J-P

With no IP in side, do you think it my not be IP's when we look at a Puffer fish that has the symptoms as this one

[JRC3]

You tried. *thumbsup*

Could there have been parasites in the mouth preventing eating. Someone in my thread suggested that.

[J-P]

I can't say for certain. Picture #5 had me a little worried, but I also read that there are IPs that attach the throat area. That I didn't check.

She had all the symptoms of Internal parasites, but it could also have been something else that caused her to starve to death.

Seeing as how the intestine was completely void, that is where I would have thought the parasites would have resided. Yet I found nothing to indicate that. That is where I focused. I didn't check the throat although I did get to see the heart (OMG it was so tiny!)

Not being a specialist, I can't say one way or the other. From what I saw, parasites were not the cause.

[Flutter]

Parasites can also be microscopic. Many need 1000x magnification with an oil immersion lens. Not saying that it was parasites but just because you couldn't see any doesn't mean they aren't there.

[J-P]

Yep, I realize that. What I was looking for were the typical culprits: anchor worms, nematodes etc..

Thus, because it wasn't a FULL autopsy I would say the results are inconclusive.

I am still thinking about that Pic #5. I think my mistake in this procedure what I should have studied the picture first then moved on. I didn't notice those when I was working on her. It actually looks like there is a blockage in the intestine near the anal area. It almost looks like a "twig" lodged in there sideways. There also appears to be what looks like planeria, which of course it is not. Since it is outside the intestine, I'm not exactly sure what it is.

I had the picture zoomed in on the area I'm talking about.

dp4b.jpg

[xrayjeeper83]

Dont have any knowledge to give but those are some really really cool pictures thanks man

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Sorry bout the lost of your lil DP . I lost 3 of mine that looked the same way about acouple of yrs ago.