poor puffers need help @ store

[midnightsunPuffer]

I just came back from a very depressing fish store that had really unhealthy looking figure 8 puffers... It really unset me and I had to really stop myself from either buying them all to save them or getting really pissed off at the store keeper. The first puffer I came across was a porcupine puffer and his eyes were cloudy which isn't good but not too upsetting but when I came across the figure 8 puffers I was very disturbed, mad and sad for them.
One of the poor puffers was already floating on the top dead , clearly it was dead for a while, and the others looked pretty bad as well. One was a very weird light color, one had a big raised bump on it's back and another one had a raised, squally worm like line on/under it's skin on one side near it's tail. They were plainly sick. Maybe they have internal parasites? I don't really know. But any way I told the store owner and pointed out the dead one and told him they look sick. He just removed the dead one and carried on. I asked him if he would treat them and he said he would, but I don't believe him. Any ideas on what these poor puffers have?

I'm thinking about going back tomorrow and seeing if he will give me a large discount on them or even give them for free (I doubt it, but worth a try). Then I could try to save them, get them healthy and find them new homes. But I'm worried that even if I were to do that most of them will die even if I try my best because they looked pretty bad. And I am no expert but I can't help but want to help these poor guys and give them a chance to live. What do you guys think I should do? If I do get them, what do you think they have and what should I use to treat them? I would really love everyone’s opion on this! It would really help me out, Thanks!

... Also I know that it would be bad to buy them as it would only get the store to get more to take their place, that’s why I didn’t get any then, but I can't get the image of those 5 puffers in such poor shape out of my mind. I want to help them

So here’s what I would like to know
1. What you think they have
2. How to treat it
3. Cost
4. survival rate
5. And the smallest tank I can keep them in as I treat them (I have a 30gal long)
6. Would they need salt right away ( I have instant ocean on hand)
Sorry for the long post, Thank you for your time!

[Pufferpunk]

Nematode worms. No cure. Infectious to other fish. Stay out of that shop & don't support them for mistreating their fish.

[midnightsunPuffer]

Nematode worms. No cure. Infectious to other fish. Stay out of that shop & don't support them for mistreating their fish.

No cure? That's really sad, poor fish I was really hopping that I could help them. Thank's for letting me know. Yeah I am never going back to that store again after seeing those poor puffers! I still can't get the image out of my mind... I've never seen puffers in such a bad shape. I'll make sure to write a bad review and let other people know to stay away as well.

[midnightsunPuffer]

Hi can jungle labs parasite clear or levamisde hydrochloride be used on puffers?
I did a internet search and read that levamisde hydrochloride can be used to kill the Nematode worms in fish but is hard on the fish and will need two treatments a few weeks apart and full water changes after each treatment.
http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/CamallanusTr ... ience.html
This is the site I read from ^
Do you think the puffers might be able to surive that kind of treatment?
I just hate the idea of the puffers slowly wasting away. I would not buy them but maybe I can convence the owner to give them to me after giving him all the info on them? But I know they most likely would not surive despite all efforts, but maybe the ones with no signs of the worms yet, might have a chance?

[Bengoshi2000]

My DP had a particularly resistant case of IPs. It survived two courses of treatment with levamisole hci. YMMV.

[Pufferpunk]

These are not exactly IPs--they're under the skin. If you do kill the worm, the rotting carcass under the skin will infect the fish & kill it. Do a search here on them. The only option is surgery.

[Bengoshi2000]

These are not exactly IPs--they're under the skin. If you do kill the worm, the rotting carcass under the skin will infect the fish & kill it. Do a search here on them. The only option is surgery.

Poor little guys...

[J-P]

PP is 100% correct.

but, if you can get them and give them a happy (yet shortened) life, they will be better for it. They would need a tank of their own. Given an adequate setting they will still live a long time (just not as long).

There are fish that live and deal with nematodes and are fine. It all depends on how bad the infestation is.

As far as manual removal goes, you'd need to obtain a product called finquel (MS-222). Then have someone with a VERY steady hand do the surgery. Puffer skin is quite rubbery.

Finquel is not cheap. I'd opt for the free fish (and just live with that) if you have a spare tank.

[midnightsunPuffer]

These are not exactly IPs--they're under the skin. If you do kill the worm, the rotting carcass under the skin will infect the fish & kill it. Do a search here on them. The only option is surgery.

I couldn't find any information in the library here. But maybe I just didn't see it, do you have a link for the info on this worm? I was actucally wondering if it would be posible in remove the worm. lol yes I know, sounds crazy for a 19 yr old even thinking of doing surgery on a fish with out any exsperance. I would be so scard of killing the fish, or messing up. But it would be awesome if I could actually save the fish. I would think only the two with the bump and worm like raised area would need the worm removed right? Dose anyone have any info on this surgery? Would the worm be in the raised area or could it be somewhere else? What about stiches and infection?
I know i'm probally over my head and dout that the owner would give them to me anyway. But hay i'm just tring to see what possiblities there is.

[midnightsunPuffer]

PP is 100% correct.

but, if you can get them and give them a happy (yet shortened) life, they will be better for it. They would need a tank of their own. Given an adequate setting they will still live a long time (just not as long).

There are fish that live and deal with nematodes and are fine. It all depends on how bad the infestation is.

As far as manual removal goes, you'd need to obtain a product called finquel (MS-222). Then have someone with a VERY steady hand do the surgery. Puffer skin is quite rubbery.

Finquel is not cheap. I'd opt for the free fish (and just live with that) if you have a spare tank.

Yeah I am going to see if I can go tomorrow and convence the owner to give them to me. Then at least I could try to give them a good life and maybe even do the surgery. I was actucally really thinking about doing it, because I read that the bump on fish I saw on one or two of the puffers can bust with million of baby worms killing the fish. Not sure how true that is but it's a scarry thought. Have you ever done the surgery or know info on how to do it? When the fish are under Anesthesia, can they feel pain? I would hate to cause them pain.

[Pufferpunk]

Do you have a cycled tank ready for them? It would have to be 15g for the 1st puffer & 10g for every extra one you add.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa091

[RTR]

Somatic nematodes can be killed, but that will - exactly as PP said - kill the fish from the large internal dead masses of nematodes, which will be highly toxic.

It is mad to support a store by buying their infected and terminal fish. That will at least cover their cost on the fish and allow them to continue to buy and sell infected fish. It is too late for those puffers anyway - you are supporting a store which you despise - this is illogical and cruel to future fish passing through that place. Be horrified and do not go back there.

Why on earth would you ever, under any circumstances, give money to a bad store? That boggles my mind. You would be supporting what you say you hate.

[Pufferpunk]

Even taking them for free--leave an empty tank for them to refill...

[midnightsunPuffer]

Somatic nematodes can be killed, but that will - exactly as PP said - kill the fish from the large internal dead masses of nematodes, which will be highly toxic.

It is mad to support a store by buying their infected and terminal fish. That will at least cover their cost on the fish and allow them to continue to buy and sell infected fish. It is too late for those puffers anyway - you are supporting a store which you despise - this is illogical and cruel to future fish passing through that place. Be horrified and do not go back there.

Why on earth would you ever, under any circumstances, give money to a bad store? That boggles my mind. You would be supporting what you say you hate.

I did not buy anything from them nor was I plaining on buying anything from that store for the very reason you stated above. I was only going to take the fish if they were willing to give them to me for free, I was not going to pay for them. That was the first time i've been to that store and I did not buy any thing from them then, nor will I in the future because of the condition of their puffers that I saw. So no I was not plaining on supporting them or spending any money there.
The only reason I was thinking of going back was to see if I could get them for free ( yes I know highly unlikely but worth a shot), that way they would not make any money on them and I could help the puffers at least live a better life. I have rated the store online as low as I could and warned other people about this store. I guess this is all I can do for now. But by no means do I wish to support this store.

[midnightsunPuffer]

Even taking them for free--leave an empty tank for them to refill...

Yeah your right. But so would a tank full of dead puffers.
I don't think i'll be getting them anyway. I just feel really bad for those poor puffers stuck in that store sick and constantly being poked at and looked at in a small cage. Poor things.