Changing from brackish to marine

[jmiller]

I guess it’s time to get serious about this change over from brackish to marine. I have been doing tons of reading on here and over at RC and as usual keep finding conflicting information. There is some much info out there that it’s hard to wade through the BS. So many different ways to do things but the one thing I keep finding over and over is that most loose the fish during the change over. That is not acceptable. So I plan to lay it all out here and have it picked apart.

The tank:


The fish:



Tank is 37 gallon (30Lx12Dx22H), Marineland Eclipse 3 filter, 40# aragonite sand & 40# dry rock & two 24” fluorescent bulbs 6500K & 5500K daylights and kept at 78/79*. Maintenance is 50% WC and sand vac weekly, upping salinity .001 per week and topping off twice a week with fresh water. This weekends change will put it at .003

Once it’s get to full marine the plan is to remove the Eclipse filter and replace with live rock & a HOB protein skimmer. With the current setup there is no room for a sump or anything else that is not HOB. It’s not the ideal situation but it is what it is and it’s what I have to work with.

At my current rate I have a few months to get ready, or longer if need be, but time wise I think I should go ahead and get started on the rock. My plan was to take out about 20# of rock from the aquarium and put in a separate container and buy a small piece of live rock locally and “seed” the dry rock. Usually how long does it take to turn dry into live?, and would the 20# plus skimmer be enough filtration for a small < 2” GSP until the other dry 20# starts growing? If that isn’t going to be enough then I guess I could buy additional live rock to put with the 20#.

Now as far as cycling the live rock about the only thing that I can find that is even half way consistent is heat and flow. Pretty much everyone agrees that it should be cycled at tank temperature but flow is debatable. I’ve read anywhere from a gentle movement to enough flow to blast everything off the rock. Next is lighting, some say not required, others don’t. Some say run skimmer, other’s don’t.

I will be starting with pretty much a clean slate so any tips on equipment would be appreciated. Here is my to buy list:
1...skimmer, between AquaC Remora w/overflow box, Octopus 1000, Eshopps PSK75, Odysea PS75 or BacPack.
2...glass top (we have cats & sometimes grandkids)
3...two 100W heaters
4...AquaClear ?? for additional water movement and refugium
5...powerhead(s), what turn over rate should I shoot for?, I’ve read anywhere from 20-50.
6...Lighting, haven’t decided since I’m still thinking of maybe down the road putting a few corals to liven up the rock. Don’t want anything like a full reef maybe we’ll just call it a FOWLR+

I’ve got hundreds of other things flying around inside my head to go over but this should be enough to get the conversation started. Any input will be appreciated.

[jmiller]

Well I found a killer deal on live rock so I bought enough to be able to do the switch over to full marine whenever the rock finishes cycling if I want. I also bought a bunch of other stuff he had and I picked it up Friday night. Here's a few pics.




I wasn't really looking for a RO unit but it was to good of deal to pass up. I ended up with 40+ pounds of rock, the RO unit, 200W Marineland Stealth Pro heater, 1 Koralias nano & 2 Koralias 3.

Here is curing set up:


The second tote is for premixing saltwater:


And finally a closeup of how nice this rock is:


I've decided to keep the Marineland Eclipse 3 hood because overall I really like the look of it on the tank plus with it being a contained unit it really helps with evaporation. I am currently loosing only about a quart a week. I will have to do some modifications to it but they are fairly minor. I found that you can put a AquaC Remora HOB skimmer with only minor cutting of the hood and I'll still be able to keep the current pump for additional circulation. I'll replace the filter pad with some polishing floss and put some additional live rock rubble in place of the bio wheel.

I still have a little time before I have to buy the skimmer so I'll still check if any other can also be used with the hood. And if by some chance the whole modification doesn't work I'll just scrap the hood and throw an AquaClear on the back with the skimmer.

A quick question on curing the rock. It was out of the water for about an hour and a half, but it was rapped in wet paper and put inside a garbage bag and tote, so figuring I'm going to see some die off when should I expect to see a rise in the ammonia readings?, and also how often should I be testing?

[jus85411]

nice! looks like you got some really nice porous rock there! if your only planning on FOWLR(fish only with live rock) then lighting isnt really important unless you want the coraline algae look on certain areas and on the rock. others will have to answer anything on lighting as i am not knowledgeable enough to try and chime in other than its not really needed for FOWLR unless like i said your looking for coraline growth. adding live rock i believe you can add as you like, as long as the filtration and water turnover rate is good you will have enough surface area in your gravel, rock and filter for BB to grow plentiful. just when you add the other 20 or however you do it make sure you have it cured, as im sure you will because you seem to be doing everything right so far. with seeding live rock it shouldnt take too long to be thriving with BB. maybe two months to have a nicely established colony. what about adding pieces of shrimp or something after all levels get to 0 while curing the rock? to kind of cycle them when your getting close to being ready to add it in. you shouldnt see much of a rise, as long as it stays pretty moist and you dont have too long of a car ride home there shouldnt be much die off.

another idea what if you did a small-ish sump with smaller tubing so you dont have to completely tear that hood apart trying to put filters and skimmers in? i dont know what the space under the stand is like for you, but that way you can have the hood filtration that came stock as extra water movement with nothing(maybe rock rubble) where you would have sponges etc. then run your plumbing from the tank out a little hole in the hood. maybe something you thought of already but just throwing ideas out there

im guessing you either really love your fish, or thats an extra tub

[jmiller]

Thanks for the reply.

Sump is not an option. I reinforced the stand and have almost no space at all left.

I keep going back and forth on whether trying to save the pump is really worth it or not. The more I think about it I would probably be better off just cutting it out and cutting out the back for a skimmer & AQ. The marineland pump is rated for 250 gph and the way it's made you have the sound of pouring water all the time. It could easily be replaced with an AC70.

The plan is to take out most of the dry rock, or at least the four largest pieces, and replace it with the live rock. I just want to make sure I have adequate filtration once I do the change over.

[melbell86]

jmiller i love how we think alike! I have been researching and was about to post a similar post to this because i really want to go full marine ASAP and im a bit clueless right now. Ive got my SG to 1.010 right now so im going to be raising it .002 weekly. I dont know how to cure live rock at all, but my LFS has some good stuff, and im planning on just getting a small piece to seed my rocks as well (i have the exact same key largo rocks as jmiller). I have two filters running atm (aquaclear 30 and aqueon 20) and water current pump, heater at 80 degrees F, and bubbler. I really need to know what kind of skimmer i should get. My tank is a 26 gallon bow front with ONE Gsp ( he is a little over an inch long).

J, how are you planning to get your water from brackish to marine? are you going to raise it slowly weekly? I still have a hard time knowing how much salt to add to raise my SG accordingly.

[jmiller]

Well I'm a little behind you because when I raised last weekend I was at .005. I was raising only .001 weekly but since I got the live rock I bumped it up to .002 weekly. I found a good deal on Craigslist when some was breaking down a 180 and got it for $2 a pound. I was planning the same as you, get a small piece from the LFS to seed the rest, but at the price I gave for it I went ahead and bought enough to do the whole tank. So in the end it will be a mixture of the two different kinds of rock.

As far as researching I did a lot here but have done most over at Reef Central reading about how to set up a saltwater aquarium from scratch and just adjusting to fit my situation. Right now I'm 95% sure I'm going to buy a Eshopps PSK75H/PSK100H skimmer. I'm still reading but it sounds like the an excellent skimmer at a fair price. I have a tendency to research stuff to death but I will make up my mind and place the order by Sunday. I have to set deadlines for myself or I would still be researching this same time next year.

As far as how much salt to use, since I'm changing 50% weekly it makes it pretty easy to figure out. Once I did all the calculations, in my case, it came out that each 1/4 cup raised my SG .001 in my mixing can. If you need any help figuring it out just let me know.

I'll PM you a link that might help.

[melbell86]

thanks! I am just like you, i research things to death! I just really wanna get this saltwater tank going asap but i want to do it right. If i get my rock from a reputable LFS, is there a need to cure it? Im just so excited i can hardly contain it! I wish i could just go full on salt right now Im gonna do a water change today and hopefully get it up to 1.012. Is it possible to raise it more than .002 per week without ruining the beneficial bacteria?

[jmiller]

My understanding is that .002 is the limit per week. Maybe someone can tell you different. From everything I've read so far I keep seeing 2 months as a general guideline for curing rock.

[jus85411]

not sure on curing. i think its pretty much when you see everything at 0(ammonia, nitrite and nitrate). curing your basically just making sure it wont cause a spike right? not necessarily "cycling" the rock? and yes the limit is .002 a week but if you go higher you run the risk of killing off too much BB and causing a spike. i did my acclimation more like jmiller. i did it slow, over like two or three months and .001 if that a week. sometimes i wouldnt even raise it yet. i would wait til the next water change

[jmiller]

Just a little update. Tomorrow change will put me at 1.012. I took out a few of the bigger rocks and here is what I ended up with.



Her new sleeping area.


I also added a koralia nano and things weren't good for a few days. She did not like the change and paced glass for two solid days. Once she got over the tantrum she loves it now and is much more active.



And heres a few for melbell86.
My tank is over my right shoulder when I'm at the computer and here is a pic without turning around and facing the tank.


Notice how she staring at me? Now here is one when I turn around and face the tank.

[jus85411]

[melbell86]

Thanks for the update agh our shy gsp's what are we gonna do? I noticed when it's darker in the room or night time George is mote actively at the front but when I come over and he sees me he darts to the back.
I like your rocks that way btw

[ironbone]

ill tag on this thread if you dont mind.i would like to phase out my bio wheel filters and go to a fowlr for my gsp in a 40 g tank.my sg is at .023 i have a skimmer running already,my question is can i get already cured rock and put it directly into tank,and if so does it have to be all 80lbs at one shot or can i do it in chunks?the lfs is about 5 min away. thanks

[Pufferpunk]

I wouldn't trust any LFS for "cured" rock, unless they're taking it directly out of their own reef tank. Get a bucket with a heater & powerhead & if after a week, there is no detectable ammonia/nitrite, then you can transfer to your tank.

[geronimo69]

I just want to add my .02.... You are adding the "live rock" to the tank before it reaches full marine? Doesn't this kind of defeat the live rock aspect? I've never seen live rock in brackish tanks...

The way I did mine, was I simply increased the sald by .002 every week or 2. I still have the same filtration (I clean the canister religiously, as to not cause a nitrate trap). The salt is now at 1.023, almost completely marine (forgot to mention it's a Ceylon puffer). I'm thinking of starting to slowly add some LR now that the salt is at marine levels...