My SA Puffers already have ICH!!!!

[EvilE]

Now, it looks as if they have a secondary infection also--fin rot. By the base of their tail fins and pectorial fins, there is swelling and redness--fin rot? Man, they are in a bad way now. I am gonna start also treating them with tetracycline now, for the infection. If any of them survive, it will be a true miracle.

[Pufferpunk]

Are you using Melafix or Pimafix? It is common fore this to happen, cause the parasite is eating at the puffer's skin. I just thought of something. I'm not sure how much to use but I've been reading about adding echineca to puffer's food, to raise their immune system. Maybe this could help. Are you using any ich meds? Maybe you should try something at 1/2 dose. Poor fellas!

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

The powdered tetracycline at the feed stores like Southern States, is unbuffered and very acidic (~pH 3-4). IF you go this way, its important to mix it in a separate bucket and buffer to your tank pH (baking soda, sodium bicarb is ok) before adding it to your treatment tank.

[EvilE]

PP-- I have been using Melafix for the past 4 or 5 days, and, yes I am using half dose Ich meds--(Rid Ich).

CS--- I am using Tetracycline capsules (I work at a veterinary hospital), at about the rate of 250 mg/per 10 gallons. That is the dosage I have read and researched to use. I just open the capsules and pour in the Tetracycline powder.

This has just been such a horrible experience the past few weeks. I am doing anything and everything I can. Treatment, water changes, salt, raised temps, etc. etc.. I am at a loss, and I am losing the battle for sure.

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

Have you checked the pH of your capsules? The advantage to putting it in a separate container (peanut butter jar, even) is that you could buffer it in a jar more easily if you had to, than putting bicarb into your tank directly.

We use tetracycline in much higher dosages to mark fish earbones (otoliths) and have to mix it in buckets first with baking soda to buffer it. Your dosage may be ok without buffering but I'd check pH to be on the safe side - wouldn't hurt.

Hey, its obvious you're doing evrything you can for these fish.

[EvilE]

I am thinking about moving my Dwarf puffer and the pleco, and maybe one of the healthier SA puffers to my 10 gallon tank, and humanly putting the super bad sick looking puffers to sleep. Then, starting over with my 55 gallon tank. I have a friend who has 2 red belly piranhas that he wants to get rid of, so I might set up the 55 gallon for them, and take them off his hands--what do you all think? The 10 gallon is currently being used as a snail breeding tank for my puffers anyway, so I might as well put them in there. I will treat the puffers in the 55 gallon another day or 2, then move the better looking ones to the 10 gallon. I dunno. I probably can't get the piranhas for a week or so, since he just had a death in the family, so I could clean out and bleach the 55 gallon pretty good.

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

Looks like you're doing all you can. No one will fault you if/when the time comes to put them to sleep. Its hard for us to say if and when that time is because we can't see the fish, but you are a caring owner and I think you'll know when its time. These fish seem to be lingering and that's tough on you.

FYI, there are guidelines for humane disposal of experimental animals with sections for fish. I don't have a reference off the top of my head. It used to be considered most humane to administer enough anesthetic to put the fish to sleep and then administer the lethal dose to the water (putting it in all at once to start can give a bad reaction). There is also a case for freezing under anesthesia (in the liquid) only for fish. We would use 222 (tricaine methane sulfonate) in the lab, but clove oil is probably easier to get.

[lisalisa]

CSF, your insight is invaluable! Thank you for your input

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

You are very welcome, LL. I know that EvilE is suffering with his fish through this. I really hope you all pull through and the euthanasia does not become necessary.

[EvilE]

Thanks CSF--it is very disturbing because I know the SA's are suffering mightily--I see them suffering. I feel for them. I got into fishkeeping for enjoyment, and this isn't enjoyable. I know *stuff* happens sometimes, and this is one of those times, but man, this is agonizing for them and me, and getting quite costly. Unless a miracle occurs very soon, I think the best thing to do is wave the white flag and put them out of their misery. I have decisions to make very soon.

[EvilE]

Well I did a 80% water change today, the water was so red (from the tetracycline), and I found one of the weaker and sicker SA puffers dead, sucked into the powerhead. I then changed the water, and noticed one of the other SA puffers barely moving, skinny and very sick, so I euthanized him. I am now down to just 2 SA puffers, and they both still have ICH, and don't look too good, so I am thinking it is just a matter of time until they parish, and I have to start over. The Pleco is still in the 55 gallon with the 2 SA puffers. What a tough battle this has been, but I can honestly say that I have tried, and spent lots of money trying to save these guys---I can't say I didn't try.

[lisalisa]

Quite a stubborn case, to be sure!

Perhaps it is time to change methods? I mean, you may have to euthanize them/lose them, maybe a different approach may work.

How much salt is in your tank? Perhaps at this point, using more salt than usual, changing water daily may work. just a thought.

Have you remembered to keep the salt levels up with your water changes? I'm sure you have, just trying to find a reason why the ich won't die!

[EvilE]

I use 1 rounded tablespoon of Aquarium Salt per 10 gallons. Yes, I add the appropriate amount back after each change. I have been doing every other day water changes for almost 3 weeks now. I just added more salt to the tank, and more melfix. I will treat for Ich in a couple hours. I am on my second bottle of Ich meds, and after it is gone, I am done. I will then just use heat and salt--if they live long enough. The bad thing is that I am going out of town this weekend for a week, so what will be in their fate will be I guess.

[Pufferpunk]

I'd up that to 1 tbsp/5gal.

[RTR]

I use one teaspoon (measured) per gallon (actual water volume), divided into two doses, predissolved and separated by ~8-12 hours ( I admit I am neurotic). It does not take a lot of salt, but one tablespoon per ten gallons nominal volume may not be sufficient.