Dwarf puffer problem

[lainealex]

I recently purchased a group of seven young, half-inch DPs with the intention of keeping them together until I could sex them at which point I planned to split them up into small appropriate and non-fighting groups in separate tanks. I thought this was a good plan since most DPs come into importers or stores at this size and cannot yet be sexed.

The problem is, I am seeing some fighting already even though they are still so young and small. I am not sure if this is serious fighting and if I need to split them up already? I don't know how to split them up though, since I can't sex them yet - unless I went with seven little jars or something dreadful like that.

Can anyone advise me as to how I should proceed? One of the little guys actually puffed up a tiny bit during a fight today, which has me alarmed.

The store will take back any extras that don't work out, but I need to be able to sex them. There are no black lines on the males.

Thank you for feedback.

Lainey

[JRC3]

What size tank are they in and how is it decorated?

[lainealex]

The tank is ten gallons and is planted with stem plants plus two areas of moss as well as driftwood. I have kept DP before and seen them do very well in this type of tank. I was planning to keep one small group of DP in this ten g and then another small group in another ten or five g and then take the leftover males back to the store if I need to.

[purplecandle]

If I were you and did not want to take any back before sexing..

I would fake or real plant the heck out of the tank...

I mean no open water..no spot not covered with leaves of some sort..

and on the bottom, I would put tiny cups every where..maybe from a child tea set (if it were save)

give them too many place to be!

[lainealex]

I already tried overloading the tank with plants but all that happened was that I could hardly see the puffs and could not tell whether they were fighting or eating so I took some plants out in order to monitor the fish better. There are still loads of hiding places. I am mostly concerned with how badly they can hurt each other when they are so young at only one half inch. Can they kill each other even though they are still so young?

There must be a process for this because most DPs seem to come onto the market at one half inch before we can sex them - so people must be going through what I am going through all the time, right?

Thanks,

Lainey

[JRC3]

What have you been feeding them? Also how are you feeding and how often?

[lainealex]

Well, this is a good question because the fighting seems to happen before feeding, when they may be hungry. I have been feeding live baby brine shrimp and daphnia moina three times daily. I tried frozen brine and bloodworms but the fish are too small to eat these, or so it seems. I plan on trying microworms and grindal worms (live) in the next few days.

I'm just not sure they are getting enough daphnia moina and I'm not sure if they are eating the baby brine. But I do see all of them eating the moina - just not sure how much.

Are you asking because you think hunger might cause the fighting?

Thanks,

Lainey

[JRC3]

Actually I was asking because I was afraid they were being fed flake or freeze-dried. And I was thinking they didn't like it and were fighting because they weren't eating anything or enough and wanting the good stuff. Good job feeding them good food.

Can you just split them up with another tank? Or, I wonder if you could divide the tank and maybe get the trouble maker/makers into their own side. You might have keep switching a few from side to side until you find a combo that works.

[xrayjeeper83]

7 DP's in a 10g is overstocked. So it maybe stress thats causing the fighting

[Pufferpunk]

I agree--when you overcrowd a tank with aggressive fish, there will be fighting for territories, even among females. Have you read the sexing article in our Library?

[lainealex]

These dwarf puffers are really young - a couple of them are maybe 1/3 of an inch, maybe a little less. My understanding was that you can keep young DPs in a group in a ten g until they get a bit older and bigger - are you all saying that even as juveniles they will act like adults in terms of their aggressiveness? Does anyone know when the true aggression kicks in? I am well aware that I can't keep seven DPs in a ten g as adults, but honestly, when I look into this tank, I can't see any fish at all most of the time and I have to use a magnifying glass to really see them well.

They're tiny!

I guess I'm just looking to find out more information about how they mature and when you really need to separate them to prevent fatalities.

Lainey

[xrayjeeper83]

Im thinking that it kicks in at birth lol.

[Pufferpunk]

C'mon now, they are puffers! I've read of fry fighting eating each other in some species.

[borgey]

They are crazy little buggers. 7 in a 10 gallon must be intense.

[Nick]

When DPs keep spawning over a period, giving you fry of several sizes, it's usually necessary to separate the sizes into blocks to keep them from eating each other. Once they hit a certain size they stop the cannibalism part, but may still fight.

They seem to be much more social when startled, often hiding together, or when ganging up on something larger - a big snail, a slow moving fish with large fins, that kind of thing.