I am a newbie to the saltwater fish world. I am ashamed that we know now didn't read up enough before getting our fish! We were relying totally on the fish store owner. Shame on us. I apologize for the novel below, but it seems you need particulars to help with the diagnosis.
We set up our tank on Christmas eve.
We got our Dogface Puffer one month later on January 21, as well as a small violet colored fish (can't recall name right now). That fish 'disappeared within the week'. Unable to find it. We soon got a shrimp and gobi fish.
Our dogface puffer was doing well since he became part of the family, rubbing a little on the rock, also against fingers during/after feeding ~ which I have read now is a sign of a problem not cuteness. We feed him Kril.
We did 5-6g water changes every 2-3 weeks and clean it up every weekend (filters, pumps/powerheads).
Feb 3rd, we got a 'Nemo' fish. It died within a week. Eating great and happy in the tank up until we found it dead one week later on Feb 11 - no explanation. Took water in to the fish store owner for testing and no problems. Unfortunately, he gave us another fish to replace it and it died within 2 days.
Feb 14th, 'Jinx', our puffer started getting cloudy eyes. I researched your forums, as well as others, to find out what it was. I read that it was fungus and to put a fungicide into the tank. The fish store owner never heard of that, but all he had as a fungicide 'Mardel Maracyn'. I took the water in to the store and he said it was a little high in ammonia - probably from overfeeding.
I looked through the sand for the 1st violet colored fish that we lost, but couldn't find. I found a bunch of Kril that the shrimp buried from Jinx's messy eatings --- may account for the ammonia spike.
We did a 7g water change, put in Ammo-lock and put in 2 tablets of Maracyn. I have done that for 5 days - following the directions and there are no changes. We did another 6g water change on Saturday morning, Feb 18th - the ammonia was a little again even after the water change - put in Ammo-lock again.
Jinx still has his wonderful appetite, but has cloudy eyes - one has a string hanging off the cloudiness. No apparent white spots, but there may be a little powdery all over --- Unfortunately, I do no know enough to recognize what is normal for his body to look like. He is breathing rapidly, tail curled, corner hiding, squints his eyes like they hurt, dark coloring.
We have a 55g tank, 25 lb live rock, 10lb base rock (2 at 5lb), live sand, protein skimmer (SeaClone 100), 2 Maxijet 1200 submersible pump/powerhead, 150watt water heater.
We do not have a hospital tank --- unfortunatley, we were not smart enough to read up on this before we set up a tank.
The shrimp/gobi fish are doing just fine, the brittle fish and star died (from the Maracyn, I believe). They were okay before I put in the treatment. The hermit crabs, snails and cucumber seems to be doing just fine - no casualties.
Can anyone help? Thanks a million,
Newbie with sick puffer. Any help appreciated
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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crazyforpuffs
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: The Big Smoke, Ontario
Well, I can help with a few basics.
Firstly, how was your tank cycled? Puffers are extra sensitive, as they are scaleless, and will not do well when placed in a tank which has not been properly cycled. Did you do fishless cycle, or with fish?
Do not use ammo lock...it just confuses things.
Also, you need a water testing kit...you need to monitor at least the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in your tank.
I do not think that a 5% water change every 2-3 weeks is sufficient - as I believe the Seaclone brand of skimmer is not the most effective. I am afraid that your water quality is low - and as you do not test it regularly, you do not know - till your fish start showing signs of illness.
As for the puffer, I'd try Melafix for the cloudy eye...not Maracyn....and water changes. You can never do too many water changes.
Also, a 55 gallon is a little on the small side to house your puff. How big is he currently? I believe we recommend 65+ gallons for a DG puffer.
And I almost forgot - you only feed krill? Your puffer needs a much more varied diet than just krill. CHeck out our library for articles and ideas on what other things you can feed your puffer.
Firstly, how was your tank cycled? Puffers are extra sensitive, as they are scaleless, and will not do well when placed in a tank which has not been properly cycled. Did you do fishless cycle, or with fish?
Do not use ammo lock...it just confuses things.
Also, you need a water testing kit...you need to monitor at least the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in your tank.
I do not think that a 5% water change every 2-3 weeks is sufficient - as I believe the Seaclone brand of skimmer is not the most effective. I am afraid that your water quality is low - and as you do not test it regularly, you do not know - till your fish start showing signs of illness.
As for the puffer, I'd try Melafix for the cloudy eye...not Maracyn....and water changes. You can never do too many water changes.
Also, a 55 gallon is a little on the small side to house your puff. How big is he currently? I believe we recommend 65+ gallons for a DG puffer.
And I almost forgot - you only feed krill? Your puffer needs a much more varied diet than just krill. CHeck out our library for articles and ideas on what other things you can feed your puffer.
Thank you for your quick response.
The tank was cycled without fish. We put in the live sand, 1 25 lb rock, and 2 5lb rocks.
We always took the water to the store for testing. The water never did turn nasty like he said it would - a little cloudy, but not bad. After 3 weeks, the fish store gave us snails and hermit crabs. A few days later, we got the invertebrates (brittle and star fish). They stayed in there for 7-10 days until the all of the ammonia and nitrites (may have been nitrate) levels were at 0.
5 weeks after we set up the tank, we got fish (DF puffer and a really small violet-colored fish). The DF is 2.5 - 3" long. We do only feed him krill, but will open up his diet - thank you!
We were concerned the Seaclone wasn't sufficient - it doesn't seem to collect anything and is hard to clean out. Any suggestions? We like the best - no matter the cost.
We took the water to the fish store weekly for testing - he always said it was good. Even after the Nemo died (five/six weeks after set up) there was nothing high.
I have been testing it regularly the past week since Jinx became 'ill'. The fish store gave me only ammonium and nitrate tests. I will go get the nitrite tests. All week, they both have been at 0. The Nitrate test starts at 10, but the color is much paler than the color chart for '10' except yesterday before and after the water change. The nitrate was still 0, but the ammonia was between 0 and .2. I freaked and added Ammo-lock. I hope it just spiked the test because I tested it tonight again and it is dark green. All of the fish - including Jinx - seem to be the same as the past week when the ammonia was at 0.
How often is safe to change the water. BTW, we use the ?RO water from the fish store, not tap water. And, what is the recommended %.
We will do whatever is necessary - we love puffers now that we've been introduced and want the tank to be made for them and what they like. First things first - getting Jinx healthy again.
Thank you again for all of your assistance!
The tank was cycled without fish. We put in the live sand, 1 25 lb rock, and 2 5lb rocks.
We always took the water to the store for testing. The water never did turn nasty like he said it would - a little cloudy, but not bad. After 3 weeks, the fish store gave us snails and hermit crabs. A few days later, we got the invertebrates (brittle and star fish). They stayed in there for 7-10 days until the all of the ammonia and nitrites (may have been nitrate) levels were at 0.
5 weeks after we set up the tank, we got fish (DF puffer and a really small violet-colored fish). The DF is 2.5 - 3" long. We do only feed him krill, but will open up his diet - thank you!
We were concerned the Seaclone wasn't sufficient - it doesn't seem to collect anything and is hard to clean out. Any suggestions? We like the best - no matter the cost.
We took the water to the fish store weekly for testing - he always said it was good. Even after the Nemo died (five/six weeks after set up) there was nothing high.
I have been testing it regularly the past week since Jinx became 'ill'. The fish store gave me only ammonium and nitrate tests. I will go get the nitrite tests. All week, they both have been at 0. The Nitrate test starts at 10, but the color is much paler than the color chart for '10' except yesterday before and after the water change. The nitrate was still 0, but the ammonia was between 0 and .2. I freaked and added Ammo-lock. I hope it just spiked the test because I tested it tonight again and it is dark green. All of the fish - including Jinx - seem to be the same as the past week when the ammonia was at 0.
How often is safe to change the water. BTW, we use the ?RO water from the fish store, not tap water. And, what is the recommended %.
We will do whatever is necessary - we love puffers now that we've been introduced and want the tank to be made for them and what they like. First things first - getting Jinx healthy again.
Thank you again for all of your assistance!
tjhornet
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
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- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
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burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
I agree, your water quality & diet is poor. Up the water changes & vacume or scoop out any uneaten food. Get yourself a test kit & test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates & pH. If you do decide to add Melifix (good for all minor bacterial infections) turn off your skimmer for a few hours.
Last edited by Pufferpunk on Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Might be an idea to move this to the Hospital.
Totally second what PP and CFP have said...big water changes, that's definately your first priority, then a varied diet.
You need to get yourself a test kit as well - one with ammonia, nitrAte and nitrIte tests in, as well as pH.
I should imagine after a few weeks of the proper care he'll bounce back. The number of people who've been misled by their LFS (including me) is unreal, so don't beat yourself up - you're here now.
Pami.
Totally second what PP and CFP have said...big water changes, that's definately your first priority, then a varied diet.
You need to get yourself a test kit as well - one with ammonia, nitrAte and nitrIte tests in, as well as pH.
I should imagine after a few weeks of the proper care he'll bounce back. The number of people who've been misled by their LFS (including me) is unreal, so don't beat yourself up - you're here now.
Pami.
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lisalisa
.Thank you for the responses. Jinx is hanging in there. He still has the voracious appetite - he just can't see the food. He isn't worse, but not better.
Nitrate at 0. Ammonia is above .8 (still dark green), but added Ammo-lock yesterday before I rec'd your messages to stop. I am hoping the Ammo-lock is spiking the test. Salinity at 1.022. Temp at 79.9. Unk nitrite and ph - will do after the water change.
I am doing a 9g water change. No stores open today in the area - one gracious fish store owner allowed us in on his day off to buy RO water. Bought Melafix and will add that, as directed.
Tank looks clear, except for mild yellowing from the prior medication (Maracyn). Our two 5lb 'base' rocks are brown and hairy ~ anything to do with chemistry of the tank? The 10lb live rock isn't as purple anymore ~ it looks like it's getting the brownness of the base rocks. We are getting copia pods on the two base rocks (told they were copia today at the fish store and they said they were good). He said the Cucumber is known to give off fatal toxins and probably shouldn't be in with the Puffer. Any ideas on the cucumber and Puffer co-habitating?
Thanks again for all of your help. I will keep you posted.
Nitrate at 0. Ammonia is above .8 (still dark green), but added Ammo-lock yesterday before I rec'd your messages to stop. I am hoping the Ammo-lock is spiking the test. Salinity at 1.022. Temp at 79.9. Unk nitrite and ph - will do after the water change.
I am doing a 9g water change. No stores open today in the area - one gracious fish store owner allowed us in on his day off to buy RO water. Bought Melafix and will add that, as directed.
Tank looks clear, except for mild yellowing from the prior medication (Maracyn). Our two 5lb 'base' rocks are brown and hairy ~ anything to do with chemistry of the tank? The 10lb live rock isn't as purple anymore ~ it looks like it's getting the brownness of the base rocks. We are getting copia pods on the two base rocks (told they were copia today at the fish store and they said they were good). He said the Cucumber is known to give off fatal toxins and probably shouldn't be in with the Puffer. Any ideas on the cucumber and Puffer co-habitating?
Thanks again for all of your help. I will keep you posted.
tjhornet
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lisalisa
With Ammonia that high I would do MUCH larger water changes to get it to, and keep it at, 0.
I'm assuming your lfs meant "copepods".
I would not keep a cuke in with a puffer period, let alone in poor water quality..they can 'eviscerate', when they essentially turn inside out, die, and poison the entire system; all inhabitants. I would remove the cuke asap.
I'm assuming your lfs meant "copepods".
I would not keep a cuke in with a puffer period, let alone in poor water quality..they can 'eviscerate', when they essentially turn inside out, die, and poison the entire system; all inhabitants. I would remove the cuke asap.
water tests - not good results
9g is the most RO water I could get today from the store - they were closed and didn't offer any more. What amount do you recommend for a water change? Is it too late since I just did one on Sat and again today.
I put in the Melafix - the crab and puffer started swimming around about 15-20 minutes later like they had a cattle prod against them.
I tested tonight - not good results! Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc's Saltwater Master liquid test kit
Temp 81
Ammonia 4.0 (ammo-lock added on Tue 2/14 and Sat 2/18) No more!
Nitrate 10
Nitrite .25 ppm
Salinity 1.0215
pH 7.9
Any recommendations would be most appreciated!
I will removed the cucumber - thank you! All other inhabitants are fine. No casualties on the snails, hermit crabs, gobi, or shrimp. Thanks again for all of your assistance.
I put in the Melafix - the crab and puffer started swimming around about 15-20 minutes later like they had a cattle prod against them.
I tested tonight - not good results! Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc's Saltwater Master liquid test kit
Temp 81
Ammonia 4.0 (ammo-lock added on Tue 2/14 and Sat 2/18) No more!
Nitrate 10
Nitrite .25 ppm
Salinity 1.0215
pH 7.9
Any recommendations would be most appreciated!
I will removed the cucumber - thank you! All other inhabitants are fine. No casualties on the snails, hermit crabs, gobi, or shrimp. Thanks again for all of your assistance.
tjhornet
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32976
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
I would try to get SW Bio-Spira for your tank. I also suggest at least a 50% water change. If you have a SW tank, you should have your own RO system. Here's a 5 stage one <$140, a lot of folks are using: http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1COMPACT75
Or: http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/showp ... 68&Sub=166
Right now, it is more important to change your water & get that ammonia out of there. If you must use tap water, so be it!
Or: http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/showp ... 68&Sub=166
Right now, it is more important to change your water & get that ammonia out of there. If you must use tap water, so be it!
Last edited by Pufferpunk on Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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ChesapeakeSwellfish
- Mentor
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:54 pm
- Location: southern Maryland
Water change - test results
All tank inhabitants are still doing good.
We did a 16g-17g water change (approx 35-40g of water in the tank). Added Melafix for the 2nd day.
The test results are better, except for the Ammonium and pH still the same (low).
Temp: 78
Nitrate 0.0 (was 10 yesterday)
Nitrite: 0.0 (was 25 yesterday)
Salinity: 1.0215 (same as yesterday)
pH: 7.9 (same as yesterday)
Ammonia: 8.0 (same as last 3 days. Ammo-lock was added on 2/14, 2/18 and 2/19. History of Ammonium is 2.2 - 2.4 on 2/14, 9g water change and Ammo-lock. Test to 0.0 for next 3 days; 2/18 was 2, cleaned tank and did 7g water change, added Ammo-lock; went dark green on 2/19 and added Ammo-lock again with 3g water change; 2/19 and 2/19 was 'dark green' also. The green seemed a little lighter last night when tested ... but still high).
Any suggestions? Am calling Ammo-Lock co. to see if it is spiking the tests.
We did a 16g-17g water change (approx 35-40g of water in the tank). Added Melafix for the 2nd day.
The test results are better, except for the Ammonium and pH still the same (low).
Temp: 78
Nitrate 0.0 (was 10 yesterday)
Nitrite: 0.0 (was 25 yesterday)
Salinity: 1.0215 (same as yesterday)
pH: 7.9 (same as yesterday)
Ammonia: 8.0 (same as last 3 days. Ammo-lock was added on 2/14, 2/18 and 2/19. History of Ammonium is 2.2 - 2.4 on 2/14, 9g water change and Ammo-lock. Test to 0.0 for next 3 days; 2/18 was 2, cleaned tank and did 7g water change, added Ammo-lock; went dark green on 2/19 and added Ammo-lock again with 3g water change; 2/19 and 2/19 was 'dark green' also. The green seemed a little lighter last night when tested ... but still high).
Any suggestions? Am calling Ammo-Lock co. to see if it is spiking the tests.
tjhornet
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32976
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
I'd be doing daily 80% water changes to keep the ammonia from being at toxic levels, as they are now. Do you live in the US? Get SW Bio-Spira in there now! You'll have to do a huge (80%) water change to remove the AmmoLock, before adding B-S. Add it directly to your filter.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
ChesapeakeSwellfish
- Mentor
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:54 pm
- Location: southern Maryland
Act fast to save this fish. 8.0 ppm ammonia is "off the chart" on many ammonia tests. Our Hach color disc only goes to 3 ppm and the highest I've measured in the hatchery in crowded conditions is 1.7 ppm. I'm not aware of any fish species that can withstand this concentration for long.
The SW Bio-spira can/should be sent overnight if you can't get it locally today.
The SW Bio-spira can/should be sent overnight if you can't get it locally today.