another ich case

[LisaS]

Hi Everyone-
I'm having problems with ich, too. My puffers are a hairy (tetraodon baileyi) and a palambang (tetraodon palembangensis). The are in a planted 55gal, separated by a divider. pH =7.4, ammonia and nitrites = 0, nitrates ~5, freshwater, 2 water changes/wk of ~25%. I use Prime water conditioner & the tank has been set up for ~2 yrs. I was away for a week and came back to find them hanging listlessly in the water column, w no appetite, and covered with ich. I followed the recommended treatment w salt and Melafix in the library pages, and raised the temp to 80 (I worry about raising it higher). But it's been ~5 days now there's no improvement and in fact they seem worse. Do I dare try a more intense treatment? I've had success with Mardel's Maracide with another fish, a while back, but I hesitate to use it on puffers. I've also thought about moving them to a barebottom tank, where I can do water changes and keep the bottom well vacuumed, to try to keep the parasites down. Any suggestions/ideas? Many thanks...

[J-P]

I don't see why you can't use an anti ich med. It is a parasite and if you get the correct meds it shouldn't harm the biofilter (bacteria based).

I am sure others will chime in with other options as well

BTW!! welcome to the forum!!

[xrayjeeper83]

add salt, and up the temp to around 83-84. 80 isnt quite high enough

[Pufferpunk]

raised the temp to 80 (I worry about raising it higher). But it's been ~5 days now there's no improvement and in fact they seem worse.

That's because you didn't follow the correct treatment. It's salt, heat (86 degrees, minimum) & HUGE WC (every other day of ~80%), while cleaning the substrate of eggs & free-swimming parasites.

I don't see why you can't use an anti ich med. It is a parasite and if you get the correct meds it shouldn't harm the biofilter (bacteria based).

Destruction of bio-filtration is not why we suggest against ich meds. It's because puffers are scaleless fish & the meds destroy their skin.

[LisaS]

Thanks folks, for your thoughts. Yes I know puffers are scaleless, that's why I was concerned about the meds. 86 degrees huh? It's just that they look so stressed at 80, but I did add an airstone to help w O2. And in my defense I checked 2 other websites that recommended 80. But ok I'll do it. I'll let you know what happens. Oh, and yes, I've been doing massive water changes and gravel vacuums since I've been treating, sorry I should have mentioned that. Out of curiosity, how long should it take before I see an improvement, when treating with salt and 86 deg temps?

[J-P]

icic!! That wasn't mentioned in the library article Thank you for the insight

[PolishPuff]

raised the temp to 80 (I worry about raising it higher). But it's been ~5 days now there's no improvement and in fact they seem worse.

That's because you didn't follow the correct treatment. It's salt, heat (86 degrees, minimum) & HUGE WC (every other day of ~80%), while cleaning the substrate of eggs & free-swimming parasites.

I don't see why you can't use an anti ich med. It is a parasite and if you get the correct meds it shouldn't harm the biofilter (bacteria based).

Destruction of bio-filtration is not why we suggest against ich meds. It's because puffers are scaleless fish & the meds destroy their skin.

+1 for PP

Used that treatment ones and it works. W/C is very important in this proses. When adding water make sure its warm. We dont want your heater to warm up cold water again to 86F

[Flutter]

I've used that treatment several times and it's always worked. Just be patient New fish from the local stores here always come with it.

[Pufferpunk]

My discus tank is kept at 84-86 degrees all the time. There are lots of more fish than discus in there.

[LisaS]

Thanks for your encouragement, everyone. It's Sat. morning and I have the temp at 86 (confirmed w 2 thermometers!) The palembang puffer looks like he might actually be improving. He doesn't seem to have as many spots and he's not itching as much. The hairy puffer looks really stressed though, he's lying on his side on the bottom, pumping his gills v. rapidly. I wish I would have been home to catch this outbreak early and begin treatment. I'm afraid the hairy might be too far gone. I've read everything about the life cycle of the ich parasite, but none of the articles say what it is that actually kills the fish. Is it simply that the stress of all of these parasites in their skin leaves the fish open to other opportunistic bacteria/parasites, and infections?

[PolishPuff]

Ohh , keep us updated

[Pufferpunk]

Be sure there is plenty of flow.

[LisaS]

Hi Folks-
I write with a heavy heart, the hairy puffer didn't make it. Most of my friends would laugh at me for being so distraught over a fish, but I know you guys understand. I don't know what happened. Yesterday at lunchtime I was feeling cautiously optimistic. I had just completed a 25% water change and was very careful to replace salt, melafix, and Prime in the new water. pH and temp didn't shift and I checked all the wq parameters -- nitrogen species all zero, pH 7.4, and phosphate zero too. I was out for 5 hrs in the afternon and when I came back he was a changed fish. He had lost all his color and it looked as if he skin was rotting away. The wq was still all good so I don't think I introduced a toxin, but I suppose I might have. He didn't last much longer after that, and I removed the dead body immediately and gave the gravel another good vacuum. He was such a fine fish, he really enjoyed his food. We had 2 good years. I'll keep w the program for the palembang, he didn't seem as badly affected as the hairy. Fingers crossed.

[Pufferpunk]

Awww... so sorry for your loss. Had you used any meds in there?

[LisaS]

No, no meds other than the salt, melafix, and Prime. I was wondering if there might be some reaction between melafix and Prime, as Prime complexes nitrogen species. But I've used that combo before and not had trouble. Thanks for all your help and your thoughts.