GSP vs Saba

[jus85411]

i was wondering if there was a certain size or approx age where the differences really start to show between these two species. when i was studying my puffer two nights ago i noticed that his pattern seemed to be a little different, or starting to show a different pattern coming through. not much different but i think hes starting to grow a little more again and maybe hes developing a little bit of a different pattern. i was just in the puffer pedia looking at the sabas and one difference i noticed between the two was that the sabas seem to have the spots like a GSP but some or most are more of a circle of black with a spot the color of their body in the middle. the face features and body style of the sabas in the pedia seems to the T how my GSP looks. the size of the pectoral fin in comparison to the size of the rest of the puffer. even when i had my second GSP, the size of the pectoral fins seemed to be smaller in proportion to the body than what my current GSP has. i know there are speculated "sub species" of GSP and there are possible variations depending on eye separation to spot patterns. does anyone know if sabas show differences at an early age or if its really dependent once the puff is full grown or at least close to it. my GSP is getting close to full grown so any differences hopefully would have started to show already. somewhere between 4 3/4 - 5 1/4 inches currently. from what i read GSPs grow pretty slow for the most part. how slow is slow? i have had mine about a year and 8 or 9 months, got him at about 2 inches and he seemed to not grow much if any until he was in brackish and grew about 2 1/2 inches in a matter of two months at most.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23695 <---- my GSP from about two or three months ago, i will take some more recent pictures tonight if i remember. i know i most likely have a GSP but just wondering with this possible newly developing pattern

ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Brackish/T_Sabahensis/ that is the pufferpedia page on sabas, mine doesnt so much resemble Hilly's too much but the puffer owned by Spanky looks more like my GSP.

[purplecandle]

I have studied and looked at pics of sabas and suspected sabas, really facinating.

Some would say that yours is not a saba because he has a green spot, however, in HIlly's article, he mentions his saba having a green spot.

I think what you have, and perhaps what I have (I have two of these) are either juvenile sabs and as they grow they will look more like the specimens in the library. OR we have a mixture of saba and green spot. I have looked at maps and the areas were both of these puffers are found do over lap...so that could mean two things. 1. A hybrid is possible due to location and genome and 2. exporters could easily confuse the two as juveniles and are grabbing up both.

If you look here, mine and yours look like juvenile sabs


http://www.puffer.gr.jp/monograph/Libra ... /index.htm

Look at this youtube video as well, it allows you to see what your puffer will look like grown up
You kind of see how the spots can change position

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khvC2Zt60O4

Here is another video that puts the spots into perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHQHXuPv ... re=related



Whatever they are, we will know for sure once they surpass 6 inches. But for me a huge clue is how dang fast they are growing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hilly]

I posted up a load of weird and wonderful variants in another post. Strange patterns totally different to a GSP. I'm not even sure if mine was technically a Sabahensis but he was definitely not a standard GSP, just going on size, I think I mentioned that in the blurb I wrote and when I did the Pufferpedia bit. I bought him because he was a different and liked his patterning. He was a total mess when I got him, took a lot of TLC to get him back to health.

I dont think its been technically classified as anything yet.

Just see what you end up with, thats half the fun.

[purplecandle]

Just to add to the puzzle...

there could even be another species.. genetic cousins to GSPs and Sabas..in the same way ceylons are cousins to F8s

[Hilly]

There could be more species/ sub-species/ regional variations purplecandle. Just haveto keep an eye out for unusual ones in the LFS's.

[jus85411]

i wouldnt be surprised if they were some sort of cousins like the ceylons. where can you find maps that point out different areas that different puffers live in? is that available on like wiki? i didnt go that far into research or thinking about it but that makes it even more possible since they overlap eachother geographically. i took some new pictures that i think will point out some of the pattern that seems to be coming in. i just dont have my camera cord with me so tomorrow i will post them up. in the puffer pedia for the sabas, hilly's doesnt really have that green patch as much, but the second one owned by spanky has that vibrant green patch. hilly is that your fish that purplecandle linked in youtube? if not it looks just like yours. another thing i thought was interesting that i have read is that sabas tend to be more interactive they were once they get to know their owners. mine will let me touch him, he will rub against my finger. i have stuck my whole hand in there recently to see if he would let me kind of hold him in the water gently in my hand or let me rub him with my whole hand. he seemed not too sure about that at first but hes starting to come around. the other night he let me put my whole hand around him and he swam really slow through my hand. it was really cool! i will post those pictures tomorrow and i will include a picture or two of him feeding because in order for me to get a nice picture of the top of him i had to tease him for a minute or two with a clam outside of the tank. once i put it in he still saw the reflection of the clam in the glass and continued for another minute to try and eat through the glass until he realized my blue velvet damsel bit the clam haha sometimes that puff let me tell you

[Hilly]

Did you mean the green patch like this.


No they werent mine they were from someone on MFK.

[jus85411]

i noticed yours had one but it wasnt like a GSP would have, or even the one from spankys saba. i definitely noticed yours though. is your saba full marine or do you have it brackish? how big did your get yours? if it was a juvenile was the green patch more vibrant as it was young and lost some brightness as it got older? how old is yours currently approx? sorry for the questionaire, just really curious about this subject

[Hilly]

I lost it a while back my own fault fiddling with the house wiring, it was a bad week for puffers in my house. I had it in low brackish to start then went up to 1.010 then back up and down and then went to fresh. Its all in the sticky in the brackish section I think. Missed the chance on getting another. Bloody distributors.

I always found the marking could vary dramatically depending on the lighting I was using. Sometimes it wouldnt even show. I used only a select few in the pedia.

If you want to have a look at all the images I took they are located here:
Album

[jus85411]

love the picture with its mouth open all the way! i have always tried to catch mine like that but he only does it every so often and always when my camera isnt close by. did you knowingly get a saba, or was it a "GSP" when you bought it?

[Hilly]

If I had got that pic perfectly in focus I think I might have won POTM for once.
No I knowingly knew it was something else when it was posted up by another member. If it had been a GSP I wouldnt have bought it, they are my least favourite puffer (fire proof suit ready, bring on the flaming)

[purplecandle]

another thing i thought was interesting that i have read is that sabas tend to be more interactive they were once they get to know their owners. mine will let me touch him, he will rub against my finger.

One of my suspected sabas is named popcorn because of how friendly he is. If he sees you coming he pops out from where ever he is to come and talk, and he rarely paces the glass..instead he will stay in one spot and stare at the people he sees.

My other one was very friendly but the past month or so not so much. I think this is because he has outgrown his favorite hiding spot/safety place. He can't fit through the holes to get in. I am going to switch him to roots or something

[purplecandle]

Hilly, LOVE the album...

Looking at pictures like that I can see how the irregular spots of a juvi can turn into that pattern.

[Corvus]

jus, I think your puffer is more close to Hilly's puffer than the standard GSP.

I'm sorry I cannot give you a proper scientific name. I don't think anyone can at this moment. The most honest thing is (what we did with Hilly's puffer): use a cf., cf. means confer (latin for compare) and says it's a species similar to the name I'm giving, but not for sure. This is called open nomenclature and used in unclear cases such as this one. The name would then be: Tetraodon cf. sabahensis, implying it might be a T. sabahensis, but we are not entirely safe.

[Corvus]

PS:

yes, they are very close to T. fluviatilis (Once even seen as a subspecies: T. fluviatilis sabahensis), but T. nigroviridis is genetically very similar, too.