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Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:36 pm

Yeah I agree with PP

Post by **RTR** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:08 pm

TAN makes a good point which I forgot to mention - the blasted fish don't even have the grace to look sick. They appear fine, are active, eat well, and then they are dead. That is so strange and so frustrating.

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:40 pm

Hmm, there has to be some symptoms.

TAN · Post by **TAN** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:35 am

Tihsho wrote:Hmm, there has to be some symptoms.

Absolutely no one symptoms...

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:47 am

Does anyone know what these guys eat in the wild? It seems odd that they're dying just because they're in a tank...it makes me wonder if they are specialized feeders and that need is not being met in captivity.

Eric

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:04 am

If that were the case, shouldn't they show some signs of weakness before death?

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:15 pm

It'd be good if someone could do an autopsy and blood work-up on a freshly wild caught fugu and one that's died in captivity....there must be something killing them.
Pami.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:51 pm

PP - You're probably right that they should show signs of weakness before dying - but the just up and dying thing after a few months is odd enough in itself and seems to hint that something is missing and it's simply not just a stress reaction to captivity.

The fish is of a size that should be keepable in an aquarium, they're well known fish (at least in the culinary world) so there should be sufficient information on what waters they're taken from, and all I could think of that would lead to death is that they're missing something vital from their environment that we cannot provide in an aquarium. Could be food (or something their puffer's prey eats), could be some symbiotic relationship with an organism in their native environment, or could be something else entirely.

I can see a fish receiving sufficient nutrition to look healthy, be missing some vital vitamin or mineral, and then have a stroke, heart failure or some other internal, and stealthy, event take place.

Eric

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:02 pm

Or their immune system just suddenly packs in as a result of this putative deficiency.....or could it, bizarre as this sounds, be an allergic reaction to something in a domestic environment?
You can suddenly get allergic to a substance, if your immune system's reached it's tolerance with it.
Someone'll work it out one day.
Pami.

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:23 pm

I was probably thinking that they have a heart condition. From what I know about the culinary part of fugu's they contain high levels of toxin (i know most to all puffers contain toxin aswell) and maybe the gland that holds the toxin breaks within the puffer and due to the stress of a new home it cannot withstand its natural deffense?

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:31 pm

You should read up on tetraodotoxin, Tihsho -- I'm sure you'd find it really interesting. There's a lot of misconceptions out there. But in response to your theory, puffers have evolved to be immune to the toxins they carry.

My own theory is that these fish need a very large & complex home with strong current and excellent water quality, and a supply of live food within the tank, to keep them interested.

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:36 pm

bred wrote:You should read up on tetraodotoxin, Tihsho -- I'm sure you'd find it really interesting. There's a lot of misconceptions out there. But in response to your theory, puffers have evolved to be immune to the toxins they carry.

My own theory is that these fish need a very large & complex home with strong current and excellent water quality, and a supply of live food within the tank, to keep them interested.

But the way I was thinking about the toxin is, if the fish has a low imune system at the time could the toxin back fire? Or maybe the puff can use it to end its own life?

On the point about live food in the tank, I would highly agree with keeping nativeish species of small fish with the fugu and or any inverts because natural caught puffs are use to feeding when they want to eat not on a schedual set by use.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:45 pm

Nope, their very cells are adapted in the sodium channel receptors to be immune to the toxin. I misspelled it btw, it's Tetrodotoxin (TTX).

I wish someone would do serious large-scale trials with these Takifugu in aquaria to find out what makes them tick longer.

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:48 pm

Good idea bred, when your done testing tell us your results. lol.

fatpuffer · Post by **fatpuffer** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:48 pm

there is a fellow in the waterwolves ( i think) that bought 6 fugu occellatus and 4 died right away and he has two left and they lived to about 10 months so far...hopefully they live longer.

according to him...they are healthy right now...damn i wish i can keep one.

js

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