Internal parasite?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Pufferpunk
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T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Internal parasite?
Do a search here on force feeding. Better food ideas than flakes for your puffer.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
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Re: Internal parasite?
Doing a search for "force feed" didn't really help. Just saw a bunch of results of people asking about it, no suggestions that I saw (skimmed through 3 pages of results).
Just tell me what foods you think would be better to use. I like the flakes because of the protein it has.
For pellets I have Dainichi Ultima Krill and Color Supreme Pellets
For flakes I have the Ocean Nutrition Formula One and Two flakes, Metronidasole medicated flakes (somewhere), and a couple generic flakes I don't want to use for force feeding (since the ocean nutrition is better quality in ingredients and protein).
For frozen I have:
Krill
Plankton (Pacific Krill)
Whole de-shelled shrimp (would rather not use this)
Whole Frozen Shrimp (about the same size as the plankton shrimp but a different kind of red shrimp)
Bloodworms
Glass Worms/White Mosquito Larvae
Black Mosquito Larvae
Freshwater Mysis shrimp relicta
Baby Brine Shrimp
Brine Shrimp gutloaded with spirulina
Live:
Earthworm
Personally I think the best option is to get him lots of protein and vitamins fast which is why I am thinking of going with the flake. If you think it would be better to add in some crushed fresh bloodworm or earthworm or krill or mysis, etc, let me know.
I'm going to do the forcefeeding in a few hours so I have plenty of time to take suggestions. About to do water changes now (wanted to wait until all the tank light timers switched off).
Just tell me what foods you think would be better to use. I like the flakes because of the protein it has.
For pellets I have Dainichi Ultima Krill and Color Supreme Pellets
For flakes I have the Ocean Nutrition Formula One and Two flakes, Metronidasole medicated flakes (somewhere), and a couple generic flakes I don't want to use for force feeding (since the ocean nutrition is better quality in ingredients and protein).
For frozen I have:
Krill
Plankton (Pacific Krill)
Whole de-shelled shrimp (would rather not use this)
Whole Frozen Shrimp (about the same size as the plankton shrimp but a different kind of red shrimp)
Bloodworms
Glass Worms/White Mosquito Larvae
Black Mosquito Larvae
Freshwater Mysis shrimp relicta
Baby Brine Shrimp
Brine Shrimp gutloaded with spirulina
Live:
Earthworm
Personally I think the best option is to get him lots of protein and vitamins fast which is why I am thinking of going with the flake. If you think it would be better to add in some crushed fresh bloodworm or earthworm or krill or mysis, etc, let me know.
I'm going to do the forcefeeding in a few hours so I have plenty of time to take suggestions. About to do water changes now (wanted to wait until all the tank light timers switched off).
-
Pufferpunk
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- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: Internal parasite?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am
- My Puffers: Tetraodon lineatus - unnamed so far
- Location (country): New Jersey Shore
Re: Internal parasite?
I'm not sure what I am supposed to learn from that thread. The Ocean Nutrition Formula One flakes HAS Vitamin B12 in it, along with lots of other vitamins and minerals, proteins, etc. I posted those flake's ingredients earlier.Pufferpunk wrote:http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic36500-10-1.aspx
Are you suggesting I add more Vitamin B12 (raw) from capsules and forcefeed that along with flakes?
I don't see the point of that, since at this point I just want to keep the fish alive and giving it a nice cocktail of vitamins, proteins, minerals, etc seems to be the best option at the moment.
A starving, emaciated, and stressed fish isn't going to survive just on straight Vitamin B12. There's no point forcefeeding that to get him to eat either since it seems at this point I don't think he can (from all the stress he has) eat on his own just yet. I'd rather give it actual nourishment to help relieve stress and keep it alive since I really don't want to lose this guy.
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Pufferpunk
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T miurus
A modestus
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C valentini
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suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: Internal parasite?
I would. Ot better yet, make a slurry of foods that are meaty & high in protein to mix with it.Are you suggesting I add more Vitamin B12 (raw) from capsules and forcefeed that along with flakes?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am
- My Puffers: Tetraodon lineatus - unnamed so far
- Location (country): New Jersey Shore
Re: Internal parasite?
I'll look into doing that later this week if I can't get him eating after tonight.
The nearest pharmacy that is still open this late is a Walgreens about 20 minutes away, not driving that far this late (real nasty thunderstorms going on as well) let alone how overpriced they are.
Tonight I'll just to the flakes and metro and maybe a single piece of krill I'll mash up.
The nearest pharmacy that is still open this late is a Walgreens about 20 minutes away, not driving that far this late (real nasty thunderstorms going on as well) let alone how overpriced they are.
Tonight I'll just to the flakes and metro and maybe a single piece of krill I'll mash up.
-
emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am
- My Puffers: Tetraodon lineatus - unnamed so far
- Location (country): New Jersey Shore
Re: Internal parasite?
Well, some bad news.... Found him dead today.
It sucks, but oh well I guess. I did try to save him.
I really do think some sort of parasite is what ultimately killed it, and then the beak overgrowing just helped towards the end. I really didn't think he'd last another week if I didn't forcefeed him. It sucks a lot because I rather liked that little guy...
At least I know how to trim the beak now in the future...
Thanks for the help everybody. Next time I won't hesitate to treat metronidasole (since it's harmless to fish and couldn't hurt) for possible parasites and check the beak and diet (vitamin b12 like pufferpunk suggested) if/when I have another one that doesn't eat.
Right now the little puffer is in the garbage can since I didn't want to put it outside to protect birds (as well as my own birds that are cage free) from it. Otherwise I usually put deceased fish in the garden.
It sucks, but oh well I guess. I did try to save him.
I really do think some sort of parasite is what ultimately killed it, and then the beak overgrowing just helped towards the end. I really didn't think he'd last another week if I didn't forcefeed him. It sucks a lot because I rather liked that little guy...
At least I know how to trim the beak now in the future...
Thanks for the help everybody. Next time I won't hesitate to treat metronidasole (since it's harmless to fish and couldn't hurt) for possible parasites and check the beak and diet (vitamin b12 like pufferpunk suggested) if/when I have another one that doesn't eat.
Right now the little puffer is in the garbage can since I didn't want to put it outside to protect birds (as well as my own birds that are cage free) from it. Otherwise I usually put deceased fish in the garden.
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pufferpuggirl
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Re: Internal parasite?
Do you have any houseplants? I usually bury any dead fish in my plants, outside or inside ones. It's a remembrance for the fish I've lost and it's actually a very good fertiliser for the plant. 
P.S. I am VERY sorry for your loss.
P.S. I am VERY sorry for your loss.
Last edited by pufferpuggirl on Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
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Re: Internal parasite?
Also for next time if I do use Vitamin B12, all I could find of it was it in the form of tablets not capsule form which is what I was hoping for (since I can just empty the capsule).
Is the tablet form okay to use just crush it up? Ingredients (I guess besides Vitamin B12) in the tablet I looked at are:
Lactose- Milk Sugar , Stearic Acid- from Soy , Magnesium Stearate , Natural Carmine Color. , Cyanocobalamin
And another brand had even more ingredients listed different than the above.
Safe to use?
Is the tablet form okay to use just crush it up? Ingredients (I guess besides Vitamin B12) in the tablet I looked at are:
Lactose- Milk Sugar , Stearic Acid- from Soy , Magnesium Stearate , Natural Carmine Color. , Cyanocobalamin
And another brand had even more ingredients listed different than the above.
Safe to use?
-
emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am
- My Puffers: Tetraodon lineatus - unnamed so far
- Location (country): New Jersey Shore
Re: Internal parasite?
All the houseplants are outside for the summer so I can't put a toxic fish in them either.pufferpuggirl wrote:Do you have any houseplants? I usually bury any dead fish in my plants, outside or inside ones. It's a remembrance for the fish I've lost and it's actually a very good fertiliser for the plant.
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32976
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: Internal parasite?
You should be able to find B12 in liquid form:
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133505
http://www.nextag.com/Sundown-Vitamin-B ... rices-html
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133505
http://www.nextag.com/Sundown-Vitamin-B ... rices-html
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am
- My Puffers: Tetraodon lineatus - unnamed so far
- Location (country): New Jersey Shore
Re: Internal parasite?
The only liquid form I could find was cherry flavored crap. I'm not sure that would've been too great for the puffer! 
-
emartin
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am
- My Puffers: Tetraodon lineatus - unnamed so far
- Location (country): New Jersey Shore
Re: Internal parasite?
Anyway, the same importer I got the two puffers from last time (sold the other one months ago) still has one left that I already prepaid for.
Should be picking it up this week. Naturally I'll be keeping a closer eye on it this time for any emaciation, beak growth, and feed it more crunchy foods. I found an Apple Snail breeder nearby me I'll be getting 40 snails from (pea-sized at the moment) in a few weeks.
Do you think one about 2.25-3.5" (not sure how big this new one is going to be, but since it is from the same shipment I expect it to be around that size) is big enough to eat fiddler crabs? (the kind you can get at bait shops, locally harvested (by state (and I think federal law as well) they have to be harvested from "safe" waters since they are intended as bait for food fish)). Or should I break the claws off first so there's no chance the puffer can get hurt (and I'd still feed the claws as well (there's meat in those too right?)).
Also most importantly. I really don't want to have to re-instant cycle that tank the older puffer was in if I don't have to. What do you think about me sterilizing it (from parasites) with a mega-dose of Metronidasole and then doing water changes + carbon to remove it after a few days before I pick up the new fahaka puffer? Or should I go ahead and break down the tank dry, and add freshly seeded media from another healthy fish tank instead?
Thanks again for all the help in troubleshooting my old puffers illness (and later beak overgrowth). I now know what to look for in the future if I have any problems.
Should be picking it up this week. Naturally I'll be keeping a closer eye on it this time for any emaciation, beak growth, and feed it more crunchy foods. I found an Apple Snail breeder nearby me I'll be getting 40 snails from (pea-sized at the moment) in a few weeks.
Do you think one about 2.25-3.5" (not sure how big this new one is going to be, but since it is from the same shipment I expect it to be around that size) is big enough to eat fiddler crabs? (the kind you can get at bait shops, locally harvested (by state (and I think federal law as well) they have to be harvested from "safe" waters since they are intended as bait for food fish)). Or should I break the claws off first so there's no chance the puffer can get hurt (and I'd still feed the claws as well (there's meat in those too right?)).
Also most importantly. I really don't want to have to re-instant cycle that tank the older puffer was in if I don't have to. What do you think about me sterilizing it (from parasites) with a mega-dose of Metronidasole and then doing water changes + carbon to remove it after a few days before I pick up the new fahaka puffer? Or should I go ahead and break down the tank dry, and add freshly seeded media from another healthy fish tank instead?
Thanks again for all the help in troubleshooting my old puffers illness (and later beak overgrowth). I now know what to look for in the future if I have any problems.