Help! My fish keep dying.?

[kimerajamm]

I have a 15 gallon tank with guppies, tetras, mollies, and one catfish. I was losing a fish every 3 weeks so the guy at the fish store thought it could be a bacterial infection and gave me some Quick Cure. That didn't work. I checked the levels and the ammonion and nitrates were both very high. So I did daily water changes, got those back to normal and they were all ok for a few weeks. Then my tetra looked like he had fin rot and the guy at the fish store thought so too. We decided it was due to the poor water quality, he gave me some tea herb to put in the water and told me to watch and wait. Well, yesterday I lost a guppy. She seemed a little slow and her tail was drooping just a little bit before she died. The only thing I can think of is that my pH was 8.2 the other day, so I lowered it the pH Down to 7.6 over a 2 day period. Maybe that was too much of a change. But she didn't die until a few days after that. I don't know what to do. All of the other fish look fine. They are eating, fins look good, no white spots or streaks. I have no idea why my fish keep dying and am out of ideas.
Help!

Thank you,

[silent-circuit]

Keep checking water quality (ammonia, nitrates, PH) daily. Do a 25% water change every other day -- more if the levels are going up, say 33% daily. 50% or more can be very stressful for fish, so only do that if you are seeing mid to high levels of ammonia or similar very bad signs. You're looking for zero ammonia and extremely low nitrates, ideally zero, though it is normally for nitrates to go up a bit between water changes.

What water conditioner are you using? Some city water has some ammonia in it, so you may want to switch to something like Prime which will take care of that in addition to chlorine and heavy metals, since any ammonia is not good, even very small amounts, and you'll never get rid of it all if you have it in the water used and don't neutralize it.

How long has the tank been established? It sounds like not that long, maybe not really at all. If you had high ammonia and nitrates, your tank is not properly cycled or you do not have sufficient biological filtration for the number of fish in it. Doing a "fish in" cycle can potentially take a month or more, and can be very hard on the fish, which is why it is not recommended anymore.

What brand, type, and model number of filter are you using, and what size tank / how many liters per hour of water is it rated for? When is the last time you changed the filter media cartridge?

Consider getting some starter bacteria like Nite Out 2 or similar (there are lots of options, that's the one I use, if you can't find it I'm sure there will be something available to you). Dose as it describes on the bottle for a new tank, even if your tank is older. Keep it in the fridge between doses, as this helps the bacteria stay alive and last longer.

How many fish exactly do you have in the tank? How many of each type? How many in total? How many "inches" total? As a general rule, you should never have more than 1 inch of tropical fish per gallon of water, and ideally you want 2 or 3 gallons of water per inch of fish, more if you can afford it and have the space. There is no such thing as too big a tank for a given fish. Seriously consider getting a larger tank and higher rated filter regardless since it sounds like you have a lot for a 15 gallon, probably too many. Do a fishless cycle on the new tank as described in the link, and move the fish to that tank once it is cycled and stable. Make sure it is stable first, or you may have the same problems all over again. If you cannot find a good ammonia source do a google search for fishless cycling using frozen shrimp from the grocery store.

A great place to get tanks cheaply is Cragislist.org -- you can normally get tanks for around $1 a gallon if you look around for a deal, which is a great price when compared with cost new, and so long as you don't buy sight unseen there is nothing much to worry about. Always clean the tank well. I'd suggest at least a 30 gallon.

Get the absolute highest rated filter you can afford to go with the new tank -- I really like the Marineland Biowheel 350 or Emperor 400 (~$30-50 online) for a 20-55 gallon, or the Marineland H.O.T. canister filter line ($50+) if you have the cash and want to keep it very very quiet (though the Biowheel filters are very quiet). Search around online, as prices vary a good bit, but buying online is normally a good idea over in store, since they can cost 2x or more locally.

Over-filtering is always a good idea. This means getting a filter rated for 2 or even 3x the volume of your tank -- I use a 75 gallon rater filter on a 10 gallon tank for example (and that had one fish in it), though you have to be careful with smaller fish doing this since the suction can be very strong. Other than the strong suction there is absolutely no downside to over-filtering. It makes for happier, healthier fish.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. Best of luck, and keep us updated. I will add anything I come up with, and watch here if you have any other questions or responses.

[pufferpuggirl]

I just wanted to say that I do not believe that doing a 50% water change is stressful on your fish. I do 50% water changes (sometimes more) weekly on my tanks. Sometimes you may need to do even higher water changes (60-80%) if you have high ammonia or nitrites (be careful not to get nitrates confused with nitrites).

[Troender]

Please answer all the questions in red on top of this page. We need those answers to help you find what's wrong.

50% or more can be very stressful for fish, so only do that if you are seeing mid to high levels of ammonia or similar very bad signs.

There's nothing wrong with doing 50 % water changes. I always do 50 %.

How long has the tank been established? It sounds like not that long, maybe not really at all. If you had high ammonia and nitrates, your tank is not properly cycled or you do not have sufficient biological filtration for the number of fish in it.

It's ammonia and nitrite that will be found in your tank when it's not properly cycled. Nitrate is the end result from the processes that happens in a cycled filter.

Consider getting some starter bacteria like Nite Out 2 or similar (there are lots of options, that's the one I use, if you can't find it I'm sure there will be something available to you).

Most of those starters are a total waste of money. It's only a very few of them that works. For cycling a filter, read our article in the Puffer Library about emergency cycling.

How many fish exactly do you have in the tank? How many of each type? How many in total? How many "inches" total? As a general rule, you should never have more than 1 inch of tropical fish per gallon of water, and ideally you want 2 or 3 gallons of water per inch of fish, more if you can afford it and have the space.

This is a myth. The amount of fish you can keep in a tank, depends on the different species. It depends on how active the species is, how territorial the species is, how messy they are, how sensitive they are to the quality of the water, and so on.

[purplecandle]

Here is a link that explains what the 1 inch per gallon rule is really about..
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... hp?t=88431

[Troender]

Here is a link that explains what the 1 inch per gallon rule is really about..
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... hp?t=88431

It's still wrong/a myth. MonsterFish Keepers is not the right place to listen to such advices. As I said earlier, there's many things that determines how many fish you can keep in a tank. Puffers is a very good example of this. A puffer usually needs a large tank. This because they are sensitive to the water quality, at the same time as they are messy eaters. Active puffers also need space to swim in, and they need a stimulating environment to not get bored (they are intelligent fishes). Puffers are also aggressive fishes, so other fishes in the tank is a bad idea (depends on the species).
Another example is denisoni barbs. They have such big need for space to swin in, so they need a large tank, to have the chance to move around as much as they need, at the speed they want (and they are fast!)

[purplecandle]

oh no troender..I still think it is wrong, you really have to consider the specific fish..I was just saying that the rule is not technically about an inch in length..like a 10 inch oscar doesn't fit in a ten gallon tank..

[silent-circuit]

It is just a general starting point, I did not mean to sound like I was suggesting anything hard and fast. Yes, the needs of various types of fish vary greatly.

I have had very good luck with some of the starter bacteria.

[xrayjeeper83]

If you agree that different fish need different things, then how can you say that it is even a starting point?

[soggydrysuit]

Think the so many sqaure inches of surface area per inch of fish (sort of uk measure) was designed for neon tetras, small barbs and rasboras in a two foot tank. That sort of thing.

I don't think that works for puffers for one set of animals who stunt very very easily or my 20inch Pacu for another.

I'm going on the nitrate levels generated with the Pacu to tell me when it needs an even bigger stock vat! One red belly pacu in a six by four by two foot stock vat. A pair of paradise fish, pair of angels and a couple of plecs. That's it. If I do a weekly 50% change, I can keep nitrate below 5ppm with no trace of either ammonia or nitrite.

[Troender]

I think we need to get back to the original topic. We're hijacking this thread.

[soggydrysuit]

OK

I was wondering if the fish being lost were mainly the livebearers but it seems not with the tetra. I have kept both together before but was wondering if tetras are happier in soft water and the livebearers in hard water? These days I don't keep the two together - rummynoses etc upstairs in a softwater tetra tank and mollies in a brackish tank downstairs.

The moderators think pH is not so important so long as it is stable. Not changing by more than 0.2 pH units per day... Filter bacteria don't like pH changes either.

Then there is the general genetic 'health' of many common 'bread and butter' tropical fish. I gave up keeping shop bought guppies a while back because I couldn't keep them alive for more than six months and this in a guppy only tank. Maybe many very common fish are so inbred these days they are very sensitive to any lurking pathogens or slightly off water conditions.

Any thought's anyone?

Kimerajamm - have you checked your Ammonia and Nitrite and Nitrate levels, please? Some meds can knock out your filter bacteria as well as pH swings. If in doubt, please keep doing 25% water changes every day or so. That will help with many problems.

I also note you have 2 posts, so I hope we haven't scared you off, we all just want to help