Please help me!
1. Water parameters
a) Temerature range. 82
b) pH. 8.5
c) GH.
d) KH 8
e)Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, levels. 0
f) Water change frequency 20% every month
2. Tank set up
a) Size. 25 gal
b) Substrate. 0.5" coral sand
c) Filtration. skimmer
d) Furnishings. 20 pounds of stones
e) Other tank mates. /
f) How long has it been set-up? 2 weeks
g) When was the last new fish added? /
h) Is there a heater in the tank? yes
3. Symptoms / Problem description
I have a fish, probably an arothron mappa, who is very very sick. It started when temperature lowered to 71.6 Celsius. He has first caught ich, and is now all skinny and for some reason cannot close his mouth anymore (showing his teeth all the time) and one of his eyes his like whiteish. He has been constipated, then diarrhea (sorry). We put a shrimp to eat the ich off him but either it didn't happen, or it didn't help.
We are really concerned as he looks ultra weird now!!
We don't even know if the teeth thing is linked to his disease. I wonder if it could come from a need to eat hard stuff so they don't grow too much? I don't know... and no one is able to help! I don't find any vet who does fish!
4. Action taken (if any)
Introduced a lysmata shrimp to eat the ich, didn't work. Density lowered to 1018. Temperature raised to 82.5. UV filter installed.
5. Medications used (if any)
/
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak- ... 1164_n.jpg
Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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jdak
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
This fish is going to need a much larger tank if you wish to have any kind of success keeping him. I am only guessing the water parameters aren't correct due to your tank only being setup for 2 weeks. From the picture, your fish is covered in ich still and it would probably help him for the time being if you lowered the salinity to around 1.010 to 1.015 and keep up with large water changes. He also looks very skiny. What are you feeding?
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J-P
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
AFAIK shrimp will not eat the ich ... and possibly only further infect the tank.
Have you researched Hypo?
A diatom filter will also help (but not cure) the problem.
Have you researched Hypo?
A diatom filter will also help (but not cure) the problem.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
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rachel
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
Thank you all for your help.
I keep it in 25 gal because it is very young, less than 3"... I plan to put it in 100 gal when it will grow up.
Until saturday, he had a big nice belly, then on Saturday evening he started defecating for hours. Since then he looks skinny. Today it almost didn't eat but before that he ate something like 1 full mussel a day. I also give him artemia, mysis and krill.
The tank is not 2 weeks old, it's running for 6 month and well equilibrated, but the Arothron has been there for 2 weeks.
Density was 1024 before, when the white dots appeared I lowered to 1018.
I keep it in 25 gal because it is very young, less than 3"... I plan to put it in 100 gal when it will grow up.
Until saturday, he had a big nice belly, then on Saturday evening he started defecating for hours. Since then he looks skinny. Today it almost didn't eat but before that he ate something like 1 full mussel a day. I also give him artemia, mysis and krill.
The tank is not 2 weeks old, it's running for 6 month and well equilibrated, but the Arothron has been there for 2 weeks.
Density was 1024 before, when the white dots appeared I lowered to 1018.
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J-P
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
The team has been notified and I hope you can get help soon
I don't know salt water but :
e)Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, levels. 0 <== strange
f) Water change frequency 20% every month <== should be more than that.
I don't know salt water but :
e)Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, levels. 0 <== strange
f) Water change frequency 20% every month <== should be more than that.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
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Nick
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
You also might want to take a look at this link if he does make it, 250 gallon min. in his future. Good Luck with him, lots to learn on this guy.
First things first yes hypo as Nick stated is the way to go.
ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Mappa/
First things first yes hypo as Nick stated is the way to go.
ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Mappa/
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Dadof4
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
Nick's process is wonderful, one of the easiest seen. From the picture included, I don't think that's a Mappa, I think it's of the Dogface group. One of the larger issues I see is the lack of the tank being cycled (the cloudy eyes are more than likely a result of this). You should be showing nitrates as an end result of the nitrification process and per your tests you have 0. Also with a fish like this you need to be doing 50% weekly water changes at minimum. Having a puffer that can reach around 19 inches in that small of a tank can cause stunting (they grow roughly an inch a month) relatively quickly due to the massive growth inhibiting hormone release, even 100 gallon will be too small. The faster you can get that puffer in to the 100 gallon the better and then you will eventually need to get her in to a 250 US gallon at minimum.
As for what to do now: You are correct with the hypo salinity to get rids of the Ich, you need to do massive water changes (at least 50% per week) for a while until you start to have the proper water parameters, work on the larger tank, and as he gets better it sounds like you may have to trim his teeth (can you post a picture so we can advise on that?)
Is that live rock you have in the tank and was it cured for any length of time? What has his diet been?
As for what to do now: You are correct with the hypo salinity to get rids of the Ich, you need to do massive water changes (at least 50% per week) for a while until you start to have the proper water parameters, work on the larger tank, and as he gets better it sounds like you may have to trim his teeth (can you post a picture so we can advise on that?)
Is that live rock you have in the tank and was it cured for any length of time? What has his diet been?
"Darwin swings...annnnnnd a miss. Boy Jim, Chuck's suffered at the plate tonight. He's 0 for 3 and I'm not sure he's recovered from that shoulder pull a few weeks ago. I'll bet the front office is re-thinking that contract."
Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
That is one cooling looking dogface (?????). First time seeing one like it.Dadof4 wrote:, I think it's of the Dogface group.?
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jdak
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
Also, take the shrimp out before preforming hypo. Inverts will not survive this treatment.
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Dadof4
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
There are many color variations of Dogface, I think he may just need to grow in to his true colors. I really don't think it's a Mapa, they generally have a nice distinct maze pattern to them already by that size.
"Darwin swings...annnnnnd a miss. Boy Jim, Chuck's suffered at the plate tonight. He's 0 for 3 and I'm not sure he's recovered from that shoulder pull a few weeks ago. I'll bet the front office is re-thinking that contract."
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
Looks like a very sick mappa to me. Starving too. 
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
I agree and my guess full of IP's.Pufferpunk wrote:Looks like a very sick mappa to me. Starving too.
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
Gonna have a really tough time saving this one. What is purchased this sickly?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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rachel
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Re: Sick arothron (white stuff, open mouth)
So ladies and gents...
Updates for you. Unfortunately he passed away. I contacted the specialist (never mind he was on the other side of the country and wanted 600 euros for a home visit, I would have done it if he didn't pass before). He said the fish was sick before the purchase, but the drop in temperature accelerated the process.
This is how he looked when he looked "normal"
I didn't update sooner because I was really affected by it. So you think it was a dog face?
Updates for you. Unfortunately he passed away. I contacted the specialist (never mind he was on the other side of the country and wanted 600 euros for a home visit, I would have done it if he didn't pass before). He said the fish was sick before the purchase, but the drop in temperature accelerated the process.
This is how he looked when he looked "normal"
I didn't update sooner because I was really affected by it. So you think it was a dog face?