Stressed GSP in cloudy tank - What can I do?

[danzig]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and new to Puffer husbandry, so please excuse any ignorance contained hereafter!

I started a new set up Dec 2005, 90L tank (3.5g marine salt/l) and 1 GASP (plastic plants and plant pots). I attempted to cycle the tank prior to the Puffer going in but I soon discovered that many so called tank start/aid products do nothing other than pollute the water. At the time however I was under the impression the tank had cycled sufficiently after about 10 days. I added the Puffer mid Dec 2005 and tested the water daily for Ammonia, Nitrite and occasionally Nitrate. I soon realized the tank was far from cycled so began the constant, often daily, 50% (or more) water changes!

For the first 2 weeks or so I managed to stay on top of things and the Puffer appeared OK (I appreciate he was probably stressed physically at the cycling process), ate well (small snails crushed up otherwise he doesn't eat them, occassional blood worms but 95% snails) and was mobile etc. To my disappointment however it became obvious that the tank wasn't cycling at all. I decided to change a couple of things, sand instead of gravel as a substrate, a couple of garden pots etc. and reminded myself to be patient. Mid Jan 2006 the tank still required frequent if not daily changes, ammonia often above 1, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate rarely over 25. I have always added ammo-lock to the tank in excess so I was satisfied Ammonia was present however 'safe', Nitrate rarely exceeded 1 and was changed as soon as possible over 0.5. Again I thought be patient the tank WILL cycle.

Mid Jan 2006 I started experiencing problems with water clarity. A very light white suspension in the water, too fine for the fluval that became more and more dense over time. Rather than reduced through water changes to was actually made worse (not initially but over time after the change). More of a worry is the effect on the Puffer. On the first occasion he was upside down on the water surface hardly moving. I quickly transferred to another tank and he picked up almost immediately. I tested the water quality and ammonia 0.1 (loads of ammo lock available in the water if required), Nitrite 0.5 ish, no Nitrate pH approx. 8. Over every surface was a light white residue so I decided to completely re-start the tank so to speak. I scrubbed clean every surface, completely flushed the filter medium (in very hot tap water) and cleaned inside the tank etc. I also removed a marine glo bulb (I have a duo twin hood) and replaced the original sun glo (also wrapped the bulbs in tin foil to reduce light levels in tank, now 50%). When I added the Puffer all looked fantastic. After this daily water changes and off I went. I always add Aqua + water conditioner and there is always surplus ammo lock if the water conditions should spike unexpectedly.

Again I was disappointed at the water quality over the next week but again I continued daily changes and testing. Water clarity continued to vary and I continued to complete large water changes but the cloudiness has remained. I finally decided to try filter aid to clear the water 4 days ago and it worked very well. Water clarity was 100% in 3 hours. The next day however the cloudiness started to return. Yesterday I completed water test 0 ammonia, 0.25 (at worst) Nitrite, 10 ish Nitrate (or less) but decided to complete a 50% water change anyway due to cloudiness. The last straw was this morning when I check the tank and it's no more than 50% clarity! More disturbing the puffer is upside down in the corner again. I rolled him over then he lept on to the top of the filter housing. It was the clearest demonstration possible that he did not want to be in the water! I quickly transferred him to a 'safe' container and he immediately picked up. I tested the water and ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.25 (no more than) Nitrate 0, pH approx. 8. I decided to add more filter aid which as I write this has already cleared the tank and I will add the Puffer back to the same water, I simply cannot find a water level to explain this.

Can someone please provide a little guidance? I have tried everything I can think of and I suspect the water cloudiness, if allowed to continue, will finish my poor puffer off.

UPdate I changed the water 100% as when I added the Puffer back to the tank he went dark belly and quiet. I've scrubbed the tank, removed the plant pots as I have a slight concern about suitability and added ammo -lock as I figure the tank is probably back to square one. Unfortunately within 20 mins the tank is cloudy again, this must be the filter medium which I didn't clean as I wanted to give the bacteria a chance. Was this a mistake and should I have scrubbed the medium or perhaps added a new one?

Regards, Dan..

[RTR]

Ammo-lock is fighting the bacteria - it is extremely difficult to cycle a tank when such agents are being used, exactly as you are experiencing.

Also, the repeated major modifications of substrate, decor, and radical scrubbings are counter-productive in the same situation. Certainly do all the water changes needed, but let the rest of the system equilibrate without upsets.

Filter medium in developing tanks shound only be rinsed in removed aquarium water.

HTH

[danzig]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Am I therefore better off tolerating an ammonia spike for 24 hours than using ammo-lock (I have always been paranoid about ammonia poisoning!)? Also is sand a suitable substrate for a GSP?

Regards, Dan.

[lisalisa]

Sand is a PITA to clean, and not needed for your puffer. Instead of 'tolerating' an ammonia spike, keep on top of water changes to keep it down. Good luck!

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

The reason why you cannot tolerate ammonia spikes is that at high pH, the level of toxic "free" or un-ionized ammonia, NH3, is high. I have had situations in which I was concerned enough about ammonia at pH of 8.5 and above, that I have added HCL (muriatic acid) to lower pH. I DO NOT recommend this approach - but I've done it on a large system at a hatchery in an emergency band-aid approach. Far better to do water changes as Lisa said.

Can you get any live bacteria from a cycled established aquarium ? Some gravel or media or mulm/film from another tank ?

[Pufferpunk]

The cloudness it part of the cycle--a bacteria bloom. As recommended above, continue w/water changes & check around for material from an established tank. Even the squeezings from another filter, added to yours, should help some.

[Raphael]

You could use bio-spira to instantly cycle the tank.

[danzig]

This is a great help thankyou to you all.

OK, I shall continue with the daily w/c and maybe consider going back to gravel substrate for cleaning purposes. Sould I continue adding ammo-lock and water clearing additive? Also, can anyone explain why 12 hrs after water change the water is 50% clear/cloudy and my poor puffer starts to play dead? As for bio-spira I would love to add some but I simply can't locate here in the UK, can anyone point me in the right direction??

Regards, Dan.

[Raphael]

Oh, sorry. I didn't see you are from the UK, I am also from the UK as you can see. It's really annoying that we can't get any round here. Some members know of some websites that ship bio-spira to the UK if you want.

[Pufferpunk]

You may need to do WC more often then, if your puffer is suffering. Do you have somewhere youcould keep the pufffer, until the tank is fishless cycled (see article in our Library)? Maybe the shop will take it back for a while.

Stop adding any additves except dechlorinator. Prime would be best. The cloudiness is part of the cycle.

I'd use crushed coral or aragonite as substrate for a BW puffer. Check out the GSP article in our Library too.

[Raphael]

PP, I don't think prime is available in the UK although other seachem products are available in the UK. I haven't found prime after several phone calls. I do know that there is a person on ebay in the UK who sells it though.

[danzig]

I'll do as you suggest, more frequent w/changes (as many as I can stomach) and a change to the substrate. I considered contacting the LFS but he's a little unhelpful and rude!!

Thanks again to you all....

[Pufferpunk]

I considered contacting the LFS but he's a little unhelpful and rude!!

Typical... You'll always find friendly advise here. Some of us can be pretty blunt but we always mean the best for your prickly friends!

[susiejames101]

I order prime online, i ordered some from this company yesterday
charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk and it has been dispatched today so they do provide a very fast service.
I had a similar problem to you with my first puffer tank ( again bad advice from the LFS and I was a total novice so believed everything they said!!) Like you I did multiple water changes and also another LFS provided me with a cultured sponge for the tank to speed up the cycle, so i don't know if you have a friendly LFS or a Friend with an established tank that you could borrow some filter substrate from!
I wish you luck, it was a very traumatic time for me but fortunately we came through ti and my puffer is happy and healthy a year on
Sue

[susiejames101]

Danzig, I just noticed that you live in the South East like us, we live near to Gatwick so I don't know if you live anywhere near me, send me a PM if I can do anything to help!
Sue
PS I have some bio spira in my fridge but it is over a year old and I am sure the bacteria will be long dead ( I read somewhere that it can live in the fridge for a few months) but if anyone knows any different then I am very happy for you to have a sachet, I would hate you to add it and add even more pollutants!!