Injection of IP medication into a live earthworm.

[Nick]

Since my fiancées puffer jumped quarantine, I'm doing a complete treatment now on everyone in there as a precaution. Ulrike has never shown signs of IPs: aways at a healthy weight, good eater, dark brown plentiful poo. But I just refuse to take risks with IPs, and I know my fish are in a good state of health that can tolerate treatments.

I've tried soaking food in medication before plenty of times, but it seems difficult to get enough absorption into the larger foods my bigger puffers take. Also, Wormer Plus, like all flubendazole based products, has a VERY low solubility in water. This means you can't very easily dissolve a huge dose into a small bit of water, then soak your food in a super concentrate, like you can with most products. This solubility issue is why they have you create a suspension of the stuff in a container, and the slowly add it over several minutes; that way it can dissolve as it spreads out into the much larger volume of water in the tank.

So, what to do? This is where I was stuck - until I got an idea when going through a box of college junk. There was a bag in it with a bunch of paper pamphlets and assorted other crap left over from an HIV/Hepatitis harm reduction table I volunteered at. After I discarded some VERY expired condoms, I found a 0.5 CC insulin syringe. (Giving out free hypodermics is a great way to cut back on the spread of Hepatitis and HIV among addicts. Believe me, they are people with enough troubles in their lives without HIV or Hep.)

I thought I remembered someone on here trying this, so I make a fairly strong suspension of Wormer Plus, and filled up the syringe. I stuck the earthworm through the skin but not quite into the intestine, at a long angle, not strait down into it, so it would stay in while the worm tried to move. SUCCESS! Two injection sites, and the worm is visible whitened by the volume of white-gray suspension inside it from one end to the other. And it's still perfectly alive.

The puffers ate the worm with no hesitation, and did not seem to notice any off flavor; only a few tiny drops of the meds escaped into the water. I rinsed and saved the syringe, it's going to be seeing some use.

I was shocked the puffers didn't react to the taste, as it was quite a concentrated dose of meds. So I got to thinking, and

*********WARNING: NEVER EVER DO THIS :SERIOUSLY*********

Tasted a bit of the powder that had gotten on the back of my thumb. Nothing. Maybe a little limestone-ish. So it appears flubendazole is odorless and tasteless. Interesting.

[Hilly]

I cant believe you tried some, great idea with the worm though.

[pufferpuggirl]

When I injected my earthworms the medicine killed them, although I think I probably injected into their body, whereas it sounds like Nick might have just got the meds into the worm but without going into their system. I don't know, but all I know is I killed my worms. Didn't matter though because my puffer still ate them. I hate injecting living animals though, even an earthworm. I am squeamish when it comes to such things. Actually I admit that I'm a wimp when it comes to doing certain things.

[Pufferpunk]

I've suggested this before.

[Nick]

Turns out it's a a pretty sharp idea.

[Nick]

I cant believe you tried some, great idea with the worm though.

I hate evolutionary psychology, but it's funny, so...

Back in the stone age, you might travel into a place with vegetation and animals you weren't familliar with, and weren't sure if you could eat yet. Someone had to be the one to watch an animal eat a certain leaf or insect, think "screw this, I'm hungry.... hell, it doesn't kill THEM," and take that first bite. If they didn't die or spend the day vomiting, the traveling group just discovered a new food source and increased their survival ability.

I suspect the genes in question for that decision may still be around. Luckily in my case they are paired with some very good genes for constitution; I've often eaten or drunken something that made others violently ill and only had to burp a little.

[Hilly]

My constitution isnt what it used to be but its good information you got, and if you end up passing a tapeworm then it will have done you some good.

So is this injecting food procedure for marine then so as to minimize as much as possible killing off any snails invertebrates that may be lurking in the tank in the live rock.

[Nick]

I actually dosed the tank once as well, just in case their were discarded bits of worm or free swimming protozoans that may have passed, but I'm not nuking it out like I usually would now that I have this technique. I didn't think of my hitchhikers until just now. The Wormer Plus not having a bad taste is a really big advantage here. I figure it won't kill everything. But the tanks still in hypo(it's been a couple weeks longer than I need to really, but I want to do one more money saver huge water change this week while the SG is low becuase nitrates are high. I NEED a good skimmer, and would like to get a piece of very active live rock to add after I get out of hypo te help things along cosmetically.

[Hilly]

I really need to learn more marine fishkeeping terms as I had to look up hypo just to make sense of what you were saying. Although the other day I did think maybe I should get into marine, then I slapped myself round the face for thinking of turning to the dark side. Then today I nearly purchased the consciensious marine aquarist on Amazon. Then I looked at prices for marine equipment and stopped myself.

[Nick]

How good is that book? I have looked over every single book they keep in pet stores, and they are BEYOND garbage. Don't look on amazon for the price of going marine. Look to craigslist. Bad times for money, so there will be good stuff cheap to those buying.

[Hilly]

I was only looking on Amazon for the rough book price. I was looking on several online retailers for the price of aquarium equipment. But for me it couldnt hurt to read up on stuff and arm myself with a good base knowledge before even attempting it. I think PP knows Bob Fenner hes on WWM and shes on there so maybe she could shed some light on how good the book is.

Craiglist is pretty rubbish over here its pretty non-existent. It would be ebay for 2nd hand stuff.

[Nick]

For supplies like a skimmer, it might actually be worth buying one in the states and having it delivered to someone that knows you and will forward it via "ground" (water really) mail. It's cheap considering, if you don't mind waiting 2-4 weeks.

[Hilly]

Probably wouldnt be worth it with the exchange rate as it is and then theres customs and the possibility of having to pay import tax and ive just looked at the price of liverock Holy crap. I need to do more research.

[Nick]

I managed to get even more intimate with the Wormer Plus last night before bed; slipped while working with a worm and drove the full length of the needle on the syringe into my thumb. I never realized how little force you need to get a thin needle like this into your skin. No idea how much flubendazole I injected (I didn't check the syringe) but I grabbed my thumb and squeezed all the blood out of it through the wound for about 5 minutes after I pulled the needle out, then treated it with alcohol and antibiotic ointment. Only a tiny spot on my thumb now, doesn't even hurt, so I suspect no infection or other dangerous contamination.

[Flutter]

LOL. Unless you have my skin and the needle bends. Skin looks and feels normal but can be impenetrable to needles. I used to give myself a lot of needles and it got to the point where the needles would no longer pierce the skin, even when the skin was pinched so there was no give to it. When they do go through though the pain is intense. Extremely painful. My nana has the same thing, needles don't go through her skin well and sometimes the needles just bend. On the other hand I've taken care of several diabetic animals and one of the cats skin was like butter. Needle slid in with zero resistance.

Let us know if you start evacuating worms