Gotta go with J-P on this one. Tank isnt cycled and is way too small.J-P wrote:I'm going to assume that the new tank isn't cycled as of yet, tank water alone is not enough.
If you swap out the filters between the established tank and the new one that will dramatically speed up the process. Keep up with water changes and use that dechlorinated water.
Having 2 fish die in 8 hrous from ammonia is possible depending on the size of the tank 30L tank = 8 US gallons ... far too small for even one fish
Lost 2 SAPs in one day :(
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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JoseDepacos
- Green Spotted Puffer
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Re: Lost 2 SAPs in one day :(
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Dadof4
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- Location (country): United States
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Re: Lost 2 SAPs in one day :(
So, let me recap in case I have something wrong here. You started 3 SAP's off in a community tank of unknown size (you didn't tell us) and then moved them to their own 30L (7 US gallon) tank with other fish that was, at best, questionably cycled (a full fishless cycle tanks roughly 10 days, a fish in cycle can take longer, and the product you used to cycle is known to be nothing but dead bacteria and a useless cycling agent).
I don't think this has anything to do with what is coming from your tap. The simple fact is that the tank is massively overstocked. Even if a tank that size was cycled under the best conditions it would have crashed and the puffers would still have died. Sorry to be cold, I'm not usually that way but I need to get that point across (well, I am old and I do like to shake my cane at kids and yell at them to get off my lawn..)
I'm going to explain this like you have never kept fish in your life and have no idea about the nitrogen cycle so, please bear with me if I'm speaking beneath your expertise level:
All fish produce wastes ie,: poop, urine, respiratory wastes, uneaten food, etc break down. As they break down one of the end products is a toxic ammonia. When you cycle a tank you are actually growing bacteria, primarily Nitrosomonas, Nitrobacter and other nitrifying bacteria, that oxidize ammonia to less harmful nitrite and nitrate to even less harmful (but still toxic) nitrate. As you cycle your tank it produces a certain amount of bacteria in the filter, on the decor, and sand that is dependent on the the amount of ammonia that is produced in the tank or, in a fishless cycle, the amount that is fed to the tank.
What's my point? The point is that even if that small tank was cycled properly, the puffers alone would have overwhelmed any biologic filter you created in that tank, crashed the tank and they would have died. Puffers are scaleless fish without gill plates to protect them against the slightest increase in toxic chemical byproducts in the aquarium. SAP's require 15 gallons of water for the first fish and 10 gallons for every fish thereafter because of this.
To avoid this in the future you need to make sure you have the proper size aquarium (research before you buy) and make sure it's completely cycled for a bioload that is over what your fish can produce. Currently, for the surviving SAP, you need to do huge daily water changes (75% -80%) to get the toxins down in the tank. Make sure your treating your water with a reputable chlorine/chloramine treatment like AmQuel or Prime (what most people swear by here). Get your remaining SAP in to a well cycled tank that is appropriate size as a singleton or get a tank that can house a school (SAP's do best in groups of 3 or more) and cycle it appropriately.
There are ways to instant cycle a tank BTW. If you ave a friend that has a healthy tank you can borrow some used filter media from that tank (make sure it stays wet) and either add it to your filter or squeeze the media in to the intake side of the filter (my favorite way to do it). You could borrow some decor from a friend with a healthy established tank. You can use a scoop of gravel from an established healthy tank and place it in a nylon stocking or cheese cloth and add it to your tank (or filter depending on the style). Or you could go buy some Dr. Tims for FW and add it directly to the intake side of your filter. With all these methods, remember that you need to add your fish a little before you add the new media/grave/decor/Dr. Tims. I usually add the fish about 4 hours prior to adding the new bacteria source so there is some ammonia existing in the tank.
I don't think this has anything to do with what is coming from your tap. The simple fact is that the tank is massively overstocked. Even if a tank that size was cycled under the best conditions it would have crashed and the puffers would still have died. Sorry to be cold, I'm not usually that way but I need to get that point across (well, I am old and I do like to shake my cane at kids and yell at them to get off my lawn..)
I'm going to explain this like you have never kept fish in your life and have no idea about the nitrogen cycle so, please bear with me if I'm speaking beneath your expertise level:
All fish produce wastes ie,: poop, urine, respiratory wastes, uneaten food, etc break down. As they break down one of the end products is a toxic ammonia. When you cycle a tank you are actually growing bacteria, primarily Nitrosomonas, Nitrobacter and other nitrifying bacteria, that oxidize ammonia to less harmful nitrite and nitrate to even less harmful (but still toxic) nitrate. As you cycle your tank it produces a certain amount of bacteria in the filter, on the decor, and sand that is dependent on the the amount of ammonia that is produced in the tank or, in a fishless cycle, the amount that is fed to the tank.
What's my point? The point is that even if that small tank was cycled properly, the puffers alone would have overwhelmed any biologic filter you created in that tank, crashed the tank and they would have died. Puffers are scaleless fish without gill plates to protect them against the slightest increase in toxic chemical byproducts in the aquarium. SAP's require 15 gallons of water for the first fish and 10 gallons for every fish thereafter because of this.
To avoid this in the future you need to make sure you have the proper size aquarium (research before you buy) and make sure it's completely cycled for a bioload that is over what your fish can produce. Currently, for the surviving SAP, you need to do huge daily water changes (75% -80%) to get the toxins down in the tank. Make sure your treating your water with a reputable chlorine/chloramine treatment like AmQuel or Prime (what most people swear by here). Get your remaining SAP in to a well cycled tank that is appropriate size as a singleton or get a tank that can house a school (SAP's do best in groups of 3 or more) and cycle it appropriately.
There are ways to instant cycle a tank BTW. If you ave a friend that has a healthy tank you can borrow some used filter media from that tank (make sure it stays wet) and either add it to your filter or squeeze the media in to the intake side of the filter (my favorite way to do it). You could borrow some decor from a friend with a healthy established tank. You can use a scoop of gravel from an established healthy tank and place it in a nylon stocking or cheese cloth and add it to your tank (or filter depending on the style). Or you could go buy some Dr. Tims for FW and add it directly to the intake side of your filter. With all these methods, remember that you need to add your fish a little before you add the new media/grave/decor/Dr. Tims. I usually add the fish about 4 hours prior to adding the new bacteria source so there is some ammonia existing in the tank.
"Darwin swings...annnnnnd a miss. Boy Jim, Chuck's suffered at the plate tonight. He's 0 for 3 and I'm not sure he's recovered from that shoulder pull a few weeks ago. I'll bet the front office is re-thinking that contract."
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SammyDee
- Mbu Puffer
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45g FW community
20g snail and shrimp breeding tank for puffers - Location (country): USA USA USA USA
- Location: Detroit, Michigan
Re: Lost 2 SAPs in one day :(
+1
"DREAM AS IF YOU'LL LIVE FOREVER, LIVE AS IF YOU'L DIE TODAY' -JAMES DEAN
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J-P
- Former Staff Member
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- Location: Sasebo, Nagasaki, Japan
Re: Lost 2 SAPs in one day :(
any update as to how the little guy is doing?
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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