So...

[Nick]

[mrgreen]

Look the same to me....

[LilGreenPuffer]

PP's GSPs did the same, right? I remember Cricket and Bonzo looking very Sab.-like in their adult pic.

[Pufferpunk]

[Corvus]

I think there is little doubt that T. cf. sabahensis look like GSP when young. I can only recommend to all interested in the topic to have a look at some of the scientific works on GSPs such as Dekkers: Review of the Asiatic freshwater puffers of the genus Tetraodon Linnaeus, 1758 in: Bijdragen tot de Dierkunde, 45/2, 1975 and also the pictures in the aqualog. Likely you won't find these online, but rather a library.

[Hilly]

The juvenile pic of Sabahensis in the Aqualog wasnt exactly brilliant:

And just to add a bit more confusion to it: Could a GSP turn into these?









There seem to be more variants of the fluviatilis family we dont see very often, either way they're all nice looking puffers. Just be nice if we saw them more often, never seem to be small ones though, does that re-enforce the part that perhaps they all look very similar when young.

[Corvus]

And just to add a bit more confusion to it: Could a GSP turn into these?

Yes to all of them.

There seem to be more variants of the fluviatilis family we dont see very often, either way they're all nice looking puffers. Just be nice if we saw them more often, never seem to be small ones though, does that re-enforce the part that perhaps they all look very similar when young.

One problem is that very very few GSP in captivity get old enough/have an adequate environment to grow to these adult colors.

Another one is that many of their habitats are rarely to never sampled by taxonomists.

[Hilly]

One problem is that very very few GSP in captivity get old enough/have an adequate environment to grow to these adult colors.

Another one is that many of their habitats are rarely to never sampled by taxonomists.

That is a very good point. I was going to put if a Pustulatus can change its spots then I suppose anyting is possible. It would be nice if there was some new studies on them, but if there isnt it makes for a healthy debate.

Could do with some of the oldest GSP pics from users on here and see how they compare.

[Corvus]

As noted earlier there are at least three described species: T. nigroviridis, T. kretamensis and T. sabahensis (forget about finding good picture material using these names online). But which one is which (in case they are truly valid species at all) and how can they be told apart with the naked eye?

[zombiefetus]

Some more interesting pics of older GSPs or sabahensis




^this last one really intrigues me. I with I knew the size of it. :/

[Hilly]

Now the last one is what I would expect an old adult GSP to look like with a lot od clearly defined spots, but then I look at PP's which are a good age and they have much fewer but larger spots. Granted there is a size difference.

OK heres a thought, could it be that as they age and due to their dispersion that their markings change depending on the environment (habitat/water conditions) that a particular one settles in the most. Could that be a possible reaon for a lot of variety in the markings in above pics.

[jus85411]

this is an interesting subject. the last picture there seems to have spots that go into their fins, where as the other two pictures dont seem to have those spots that go on the fins. could the spotting on fins have something to do with the differences in species? the Sabo's, at least in the puffer pedia, seem to have the spots that continue onto their fins but in the puffer pedia all GSP pictures and pictures from posts with pictures, seem to have clear fins without any spots. just an observation of those pictures and trying to brainstorm

[Nick]

I have found one feature of older "gsp" that I have some confidence will be a determinant in identification, a "J" shaped pectoroventral crease in the belly on each side, starting at the "chin" with the curving part of the J going upwards, finishing just below the pectoral fin. It's VERY clear in a puffer you are looking at, but I have never seen it photographed and all my own attempts have failed. Shakespeare and Hannah's two new puffers all share this feature, not found on any juveniles.

[Corvus]

OK heres a thought, could it be that as they age and due to their dispersion that their markings change depending on the environment (habitat/water conditions) that a particular one settles in the most. Could that be a possible reaon for a lot of variety in the markings in above pics.

Can't exclude that, but don't think this is the only factor in play. I assume there are also possibly genetic differences in different populations. What's also remarkable is that some grow fast and reach larger sizes and others very slow to small sizes given the same environment. This might also be a hint for regional variations/different subspecies or species.

Could the spotting on fins have something to do with the differences in species?

Possible, however, these fish can have spotless fins when young that change into spotted fins when older. That's what I observed with some specimens. Therefore, this is hardly a usable character for the young specimens generally imported.

For characters a very close look at the nostrils might reveal differences, at least Dekkers describes some.

[SammyDee]

I think the gsp has solid jet black spots and the sab has white within the spots. When young they prolly look the same. And maybe even interbreed In the top pick the one in back it's clearly a gsp the one in front is a sab