sick GSP

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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brooklyn
Dwarf Puffer
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sick GSP

Post by brooklyn »

ammonia >.25, nitrate nitrite pH unknown, salinity 1.021
30 gal 2 GSPs
weekly 50% water changes with gravel cleanings, daily feedings of bloodworms, snails once a week
changes: removed fake cave and added new log-cave, also added fake crystal looking small rocks but have removed both since the fish has been acting sick and put there old cave back in. also added powerhead but only had on for a very short period of time (maybe an hour) because i felt like it was too strong.
Tank has been running for about 4 months with no problems, cycled without fish.

ok since yesterday my little jimmy has been looking and acting very sick. the wierd thing is that my other GSP is doing fine, acting and looking completely normal. when i got home yesterday he was hovering by the filter, his stomach looked a little sunk in, and his eyes have that glazed over "about to die" look and he is very dark.he is also not zooming around as he usually is and he is barely moving which is especially wierd because he is usually the more active and friendly one. i did a 50% water change rite away and thats when i removed the new cave, rocks, and powerhead that was in the tank but not running. i figured i would wait and see if he was better this morning and he is not, he looks and is acting the same. so i replaced the filter cartrige earlier today thinking that maybe that was the problem. before today i didnt have a test kit either and i could only afford an ammonia test kit today. i tested it just about an hour ago and it read a little under the light green mark (just under .25)
but im thinking if that was the issue wouldnt my other GSP be acting the same way??? right now he is hovering at the top of the water with his nose pointing up and still looks horrible :( what is wrong with him and what should i do????
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brooklyn
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Re: sick GSP

Post by brooklyn »

also, even if my water conditions arent perfect my fish have been doing great in them for a long time and i have not made any changes that i think would effect the water parameters...i do regular water changes and gravel cleanings. it had been awhile since i changed there filter cartrige before today...could that be the cause of all this? this all happened so suddenly and only to one of my fish...im very worried....PLEASE HELP!
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eieio
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Re: sick GSP

Post by eieio »

fish do not all respond the same way to the same thing
the weakest will show symptoms first, then the others may follow
with ammonia present, your tank isn't cycled
having no experience with brackish tanks, the only advice i can offer is water changes to reduce the amount of ammonia
there may be nitrite issues also (test kit very important)
water changes will help with that too
nitrites & ammonia are very harmful to fish :(
they may be causing the symptoms you mention
my understanding is that a 30 gallon tank is only big enough for 1 GSP, which may be at least part of the reason for the high ammonia reading
how did you cycle the tank?
what kind of filtration do you have?
please fill in the questions in the red box above as well as you can.
i hope you can bring them around
best of luck! :)
"I plan ahead. That way, I don't have to do anything right now!"
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brooklyn
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Location (country): Michigan, USA

Re: sick GSP

Post by brooklyn »

thank you for all of your advice and i know that i need yet a bigger tank but just cant afford it at the time...i got these fish before i knew anything about puffers and their care but i've learned alot and had them for a little while now...my next question is if the presence of ammonie means that the tank is not cycled then why after having them for several months is he just now acting this way???
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trekenk
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Re: sick GSP

Post by trekenk »

Being subject to poor water may not affect fish right off. Put it this way if you are subject to poor air in your home due to mold or asbestos it would take time to affect you. This is the same for our puffers, as eieio pointed out it may affect the weakest first.
Good luck with him/her.
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brooklyn
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Location (country): Michigan, USA

Re: sick GSP

Post by brooklyn »

that makes sense...ok well since i dont have access to a bigger tank what should i do?
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eieio
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and.......
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RIP cream puff :-(
Location (country): U.S.A.
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Re: sick GSP

Post by eieio »

brooklyn wrote:that makes sense...ok well since i dont have access to a bigger tank what should i do?
water changes, water testing (ammonia, nitrites & nitrates), and tank cycling
how did you originally cycle, and without test kits, how were you able to verify the cycle?
"I plan ahead. That way, I don't have to do anything right now!"
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brooklyn
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Re: sick GSP

Post by brooklyn »

like i said when i got the fish i knew nothing about them and the LFS told me to set up the tank without the fish in it and let it run for a week or 2 and then come back and get them so thats what i did...my fish had trouble in the beginning probably because it was not cycled properly but i figured once they started doing good that everything was okand that was about 3 months aago
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eieio
Mbu Puffer
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:34 am
My Puffers: *
The Congo Puffer:
"olivia"
and.......
The DP:
"cream puff"
RIP cream puff :-(
Location (country): U.S.A.
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Re: sick GSP

Post by eieio »

brooklyn wrote:like i said when i got the fish i knew nothing about them and the LFS told me to set up the tank without the fish in it and let it run for a week or 2 and then come back and get them so thats what i did...my fish had trouble in the beginning probably because it was not cycled properly but i figured once they started doing good that everything was okand that was about 3 months aago
yeah, the "good 'ol LFS" and their "advice"
the important thing now is to have an understanding of tank cycling & water parameters
this is mandatory stuff, can't be avoided.........
the cycling & nitrification articles in our Puffer Library (under the "learn" tab @ the top of the page) are excellent
i'll bet you never dreamed that you'd wind up being a chemist as well as a puffer keeper :lol: , but seriously, i can't stress the importance of being aware of your water parameters
regular water changes in the interim are a must!
test kits & a log of the results are important
keep asking questions
and keep us posted
8)
PS: a bigger tank will help alleviate these problems, and the fish will be healthier as a result!
"I plan ahead. That way, I don't have to do anything right now!"
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Re: sick GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

It is very well possible the tank may be "cycled" as best it can be after this many months but the tank itself cannot handle the bioload of the 2 puffers. As suggested above, lots & lots of water changes. You can judge how often by your test results of ammonia/nitrite. Keep at 0 at all times. As soon as there is any slight ammonia/nitrite, time to do another 50% WC. How soon do you think you can get a larger system? If not in the very near future, I suggest re-homing one of them, ASAP.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Dadof4
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Re: sick GSP

Post by Dadof4 »

If I remember correctly we had a discussion about getting the tank cycled when the fish were first purchased so I don't think not being cycled is the issue. Pufferpunk is dead on with the thought that the filter and tank can't handle the bioload, it's cycled but just can't keep up anymore. I hate to say it because I know you really like these guys, but if you don't get one re-homed or get a bigger tank (or another 30 gallon) you are going to lose both puffers. It really stinks to get rid of one but it's the lesser of the evils right now.
"Darwin swings...annnnnnd a miss. Boy Jim, Chuck's suffered at the plate tonight. He's 0 for 3 and I'm not sure he's recovered from that shoulder pull a few weeks ago. I'll bet the front office is re-thinking that contract."
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brooklyn
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Re: sick GSP

Post by brooklyn »

thank you everyone for your help. im sure thats exactly it that my filter and tank can't handle the bioload and i know that i do need to rehome 1 of them at this point...i dont know anyone personally that would want or be able to take one so any suggestions? i have been doing frequent water changes and he is doing better for the time being but i know something has to be done ASAP
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