just heard bio spyra isnt being sold any more. is this true?

[riggers]

Thanks for that clarification, RTR. I believe the Safestart product is for FW & the SW product is still called, Bio-Spira.

Oh yeah you're right. Sorry I forget, over here there is no bio-spira so tetra do both the fw and sw.

[RTR]

Now that is interesting - they ship protected against excess heating - perhaps they are not so dumb after all.

[Pufferpunk]

I wonder what's the difference between SW & Reef?

[Dadof4]

I was wondering the same thing.

[Nick]

This is just a guess, but I'd say if the idea is to get a reef safe for the sensitive corals instantly, it's probably the same stuff, just with way, way more bacteria in it to avoid even the slightest bumps in ammonia or nitrite.

[RTR]

I suspect that the reef formula includes the denitrifiers which need microporous rock w/moderate anoxia to survive and function. Just nitrification is counterproductive in a reef. You need denitrification in parallel. It would be slower than mixed base rock and live rock but cheaper. Do reefers have the patience at the beginning?

[Pufferpunk]

When it comes to a reef tank, I'm sorry but you really need patience with that. No way would I use an "instant cycler" for a reef.

[Nick]

I'd considered that RTR, but could not imagine a way to bottle it alongside aerobic bacteria without one variety or the other dying. But it could be, they are certainly better at microbiology than me.

[RTR]

Most if not all the denirtification bugs are spore formers. An oxygen-rich medium (needed for the arrested-growth non-spore forming nitrification bugs) will keep them dormant. They will settle into nooks and crannies in the rock and to the bottom of the substrate and sit there until the aerobes clog the passages above then and drive the local conditions anoxic, then start work.

But establishing an environment suitable for the specialized inverts of the reef would bereall slow from scratch.

I am patient generally, but I don't think I would be able to do that. When you are dealing with a high-energy, high operating cost system - especially without all the little copepods and worms that are a big part of larger micro and barely macro-fauna, sounds really tedious and painful. You would still need some live rock to get that part of the ecology. Frags would not do it.

[Nick]

Over which types of time scales can dormant bacteria remain viable? I've often disregarded claims of bacteria products solely because they claim the bacteria are "alive but dormant" for many years.

Personally, I try to make additives a backup... I started my FOWLR with a few large pieces(20# total) of cured rock, added 40 or so of dry rock (not sure the wet cured weight, probably another 10-20 pounds, it's over a year since it was added) and then another 20-30 pounds of uncured rock(which I cured myself before adding). It seems to be working OK. Also about 80 pounds of argonite sand in there.

[RTR]

Spore formers, stored dry and air-tight, can last a l_o_n_g time, years. Break the seal and allow air and moisture in and the clock runs down much faster.

The growth-arrested vegetative forms don't hold all that long. Months are the scale, about six seems commonly claimed. Temperature plays a big role there.

[kilofey]

If you come across Biospira, it is either a very old bottle of the original, or if its the new stuff, for saltwater only.

So for a freshwater tank, no, you don't want Biospira. You want either Dr Tims or Tetra Safestart.

For a saltwater tank, you want Dr Tims or Biospira.

You keep typing Biospyra, I don't know if that is a typo you are making, or if that is an actual product where you live, if it is spelled that way, you're probably talking about something completely different than we are.

whoops... no, i just cant spell hahahaha thanks for the correction

[Pufferpunk]

Actually, it's: Bio-Spira.

[kilofey]

potato potatoe... ive never used it... never even heard of it till i came here... just figured id check it out since my mom was starting a new tank... but i bought her dr tims instead... good ole faithful

[Pufferpunk]

Yeah, just cause it's easier to spell...