Brackish Setup Confusion! HELP!

[kezzerone]

Hello all.

I've had freshwater aquariums for years, but this is my first ever brackish setup. I have a few questions and would really appreciate some solid advice. I've read countless sites/forums and now have a great collection of advice, however, it is pretty much all conflicting - so I'm back to square one and really looking for some clarity!! I know this is quite a lengthy post, but I would REALLY appreciate advice!

For a quick background, this is my tank setup:

Tank: 12 gal. Eclipse (w/Bio Wheel)
Specific Gravity: approx. 1.008 (using Instant Ocean)
Temp: 80 F
Inhabitants: 1 Figure 8 Puffer named Frank Sinatra (with no plans to add any other fish)

On the to the questions!

1) Substrates

Probably my biggest confusion is in the area of substrates. I've read that I should have some sort of substrate in the tank. Currently, I have NONE. I've noticed my pH is a bit low, thus the water is obviously a bit the acidic side (but not unsafe). So, I'm assuming I need to add a substrate to help create a buffer and raise the pH. However, I don't want to make a big mess with sand, nor do I want to completely redo the whole aquarium. I've read about coral, aggregate, sand.... Are there larger (the size of gravel or bigger) substrates that I can add that will do the trick? Do I really need to add anything? I make my own filters (blue bonded filter pad over a bed of activated carbon), so could mix some substrate in with the carbon and just replace it every 3 weeks or so with the filter?

2) Ammonia

I've noticed that there is a small amount of ammonia in the water (<1ppm). I've added a bit of AmQuel, but that didn't seem to do anything. I add a bacteria supplement (called BioBoost - house brand of petsolutions.com) every week, and have already done a H2O change. I've read about an additive called Cycle, but for each person that swears by it, there is another person that says it never should be added. Any suggestions?

3) Aeration

Do I need it? Should I add an air stone, or does my filtration system/bio wheel do enough?

Thanks in advance!!

- John

[RTR]

1. Substrate: Very low specific gravity brackish water (BW) does not have enough alkalinity, carbonate/bicarbonate hardness, KH) to support high bioload fish such as puffers. You need to have a calcareous (high in calcium and magnesium carbonates) substrate such as aragonite or crushed coral. The aragonite is the best choice as it is significantly more soluble than crushed coral. It does not work instantly, bur works continuously though slowly to buffer the water with the right, needed, minerals. Instant solution of these menerals can stress the fish in any case - this is one situation where slow is better. A large quantity is not required. A half inch is enough, I would not use any more than an inch maximum - it is unnecessary and would increase your work. A simple stirring with fingertips or a plastic rod will stir the substrate well enough immediately before or as you do your weekly 50% water change.

2. Ammonia: That may depend on the teat kit that you are using. The good "conditioners" lock ammonia dissolved gas into the ammonium ion form (which can still feed the nitrification bacteria), but most hobby test kits read "total ammonia nitrogen" a.k.a. TAN, which show the combination of the free ammonia dissolved gas (harmful, toxic, burns gills) and the ammonium ion form (harmless). Only a few kits - such as Seachem's ammonia test - can read which form is present. Those test kits are not user-friendly yet. The odds are that your test is reading TAN, which is useless in treated chloraminated water. The AmQuel should have the ammonia dissolved gas locked into the ammonia ion form, so it should be harmless, but most hobby ammonia test kits cannot tell the difference. You have to dose carefully and trust your "conditioner.

3. Aeration: No, you do not need or want an airstone. Those are only used in BW or SW in emergency, short-term situations. They make a terrible mess with mineral spray.

General Comments: The tank is a bit small. A standard 15 or 20 would be better for the fish, but that is not is not critical immediately or an emergency. It would be good to seriously considering an upgrade to a larger home in the near future however.

The tank also needs decor. Live plants are out generally, so fish-safe artificial decor scattered about to give the fish multiple objects to swim around and explore (F-8s do this much of the time, good exercise and mental stimulation) is needed. Puffers are very intelligent fish, and need mental stimulation, plus the hunter-predators such as the F-8 need exercise. On that topic, there need to be areas with current,and calmer areas - the calmer areas should include some sort of shelter for the fish to nap and/or sleep if they chose - a cave is not needed, but some sort of overhang, a tilted rock which will not fall, or a shading artificial plant or coral. is preferred.

The specific gravity you have is a bit high for F-8s. They do best and live longest for me in 1.003 - 1.005. Do not drop it at once; do it in at least two steps over a couple of weeks.

With the setup described here, the F-8 should live happily and well for you for at least 12- 15 years and can live significantly longer. These are high-personality, owner-responsive fish that happen to be very long-lived (like Cichlids and Loaches) when well cared for.

HTH

[Pufferpunk]

I am concerned that you are showing ammonia in there. What are your other parameters (nitrite, nitrate)? How long has the tank been set up? How was it cycled? What is your normal water change schedule?

[kezzerone]

RTR,

First and foremost, thank you VERY much for sharing such a wealth of information with me. I can't thank you enough.

Second, I spent quite a while looking into the different types of aragonite. It looks like crushed coral is the easiest to deal with, as it is about the same size as gravel. However, IMO, it's ugly! I want to make sure the tank is as perfect as possible, however, I want to keep it aesthetically pleasing as well. So, instead of going the route of just adding a 1/2 inch top layer of aragonite over my existing gravel, I'm thinking I will just remove all of the existing colored gravel I have in there now (my tank is pictured below) and completely replace it with Carib Sea Arag-Alive - Hawaiian Black which I found here: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ct ... nblack20lb. The descriptions states: Bring the world's most exotic reefs into your home with CaribSea's Arag-Alive™ substrates. Beauty and brains, Arag-Alive™ helps maintain a proper pH for the life of your aquarium without the constant addition of chemicals, and creates a biological balance to discourage nuisance algae. Arag-Alive™ contains millions of bacteria per pound specially engineered for aggressive waste reduction. It is engineered to suppress "new tank syndrome" and compress the ammonia cycle. Do you think this particular aragonite is a good choice? I like it because it's black, which looks the best, and it has gotten good reviews.

My plan would then be to remove Frank and put him in a small tank and then remove all of the water and save it. I'll empty the old gravel, put in the new stuff as well as all the decorations, and refill it. I'll let it filter for an hour or so just to make sure everything settles and then slowly introduce Frank back into the tank. My aquarium has only been setup for about 3 weeks now (I know, I should have cycled longer before adding fish), so I don't think I'm going to lose a ton of bacteria by removing the old gravel.

What are your thoughts on the gravel replacement?

Lastly, how much should I add (2 inches?) and many pounds should I purchase to do so for my 12 gal. tank? 10 lb? 20 lb?

Regarding the ammonia testing - I've used two different test kits. First, a liquid test kit by API (add 8 drops of two different solutions to 5 ml of h20) and the other is just a quick dip test strip by Jungle. Also, I will slowly reduce the gravity by 0.002-0.003 to get it in the 0.005 range.

Thanks again for your help with all of this!! VERY much appreciated!

Pufferpunk,

Re: the ammonia, I'm sure you read what I stated above. To answer your other questions my nitrate and nitrite levels are perfect - 0ppm. I think the issue lies in the fact that I didn't really cycle my tank at all before adding Frank (I know, this is bad ) but was told it wasn't a really big deal if I'm adding bacteria supplements. As for the water changes, I plan on doing it every 2 weeks (unless you advise otherwise). I haven't yet because the water is only 2 weeks old! I was planning on doing one when I switch the gravel for aragonite. Do you think this is ok or am I doomed?!?!

[Pufferpunk]

Nitrate of 0 is not perfect. A cycled system will show some nitrate. The "live" sand you mentioned is not live at all. Nothing kept in a bag can sustain life in there. Same with the"bacteria' products you are adding. The only product that has been proven to contain the correct live bacteria to successfully cycle your tank is Dr Tim's. What you are adding in there is nothing but dead bacteria = waste.

[kezzerone]

Nitrate of 0 is not perfect. A cycled system will show some nitrate. The "live" sand you mentioned is not live at all. Nothing kept in a bag can sustain life in there. Same with the"bacteria' products you are adding. The only product that has been proven to contain the correct live bacteria to successfully cycle your tank is Dr Tim's. What you are adding in there is nothing but dead bacteria = waste.

Hmmm.....

Well, the fact that the sand it not "live," per se, is no surprise to me. I'm sure there remains some trace amounts of live bacteria, however, nothing even close to what is advertised. This isn't really a concern for me because I would be using it primarily as a source of calcium and magnesium carbonates to buffer the pH and as a replacement for gravel on the bottom of my tank. Will it work for this???

I just did some tests on the water and it appears the tank is now b/t the second and third phase of the cycle. Ammonia is still reading high, but after looking into the test kits a bit more I've realized that RTR is correct - both of my test kits read TAN levels, not NH3 only. My concern now is the elevated nitrite level. It looks to be b/t 1-2 ppm, which I know is bad. However, I am getting a reading of about 20 ppm nitrates now, which leads me to believe the tank is starting to complete its third cycle phase.

Based on the above, would you recommend doing a 20% water change?

Also, I'm reading 0 ppm for KH and have a pH of about 6.5. If the Carib Sea Arag-Alive I talked about above will do the job, I will buy it and get it in the tank ASAP. I just want to make sure this is appropriate before I drop almost $20 on a bag of sand.

[Pufferpunk]

I recommend an 80% WC & to continue that daily, to keep the toxic ammonia/nitrite levels as close to 0 as possible or there will be permanent damage done to the fish.

That sand will do well for the purpose you mention in your last post. I'd rinse it well, as there may be much die off in there.

[kezzerone]

80%?!?!! Wow!!

Well, I trust your advice on this. I'll get started right away and in the meantime, I'll order the sand.

One question - Will this disrupt the cycling or will there be enough bacteria in the gravel, filter, bio-wheel, etc. to sustain it?

Also, is there any use for the bacteria supplement or should I just toss it? More importantly, should I buy some Dr. Tim's, or is it not worth it?

Thank you SO much for helping me. I'm a bit embarrassed at my lack of knowledge on this subject... especially due of the fact that I have a BS in Biology.

[Pufferpunk]

will there be enough bacteria in the gravel, filter, bio-wheel, etc. to sustain it?

The bacteria you need does not live in the water column.

I'd toss that bacteria garbage you have. Dr Tim's will help but you have to add it directly to the filter after an 80% WC & then leave the tank alone for 48 hours for it to take hold.

[bastallard]

IMO 80% water changes daily will slow down the cycling of your tank, but your fish will thank you by not dying.

[kezzerone]

IMO 80% water changes daily will slow down the cycling of your tank, but your fish will thank you by not dying.

I'd prefer my fish to stay alive. I've heard that dead fish make lousy pets.

[RTR]

IMO 80% water changes daily will slow down the cycling of your tank, but your fish will thank you by not dying.

The above comment is 1oo% incorrect, absolutely false. It has no basis in fact. That bit of aquarium mythology is older than I am and never had any relationship to reality. In fact, the opposite effect will be observed if the ammonia is higher than optimum for cycling, the water changes will it that case actually speed up the cycle.. Anyone who does not do all needed partails required during fish cycling will have injured or dead fish who will never, if they survive at all, be as healthy or live as long as they would have if the partials kept the ammonia/nitrite in check below toxic levels. I cannot believe that myth is still around. The corollary to it, that you can seed a tank with water from an existing cycled tank must still be active as well.

All existing user-friend liquid based test kits measure TAN. They should have been replaced, in this country at least, well before the turn of the century when the EPA declared chloramines to be the disinfectant of choice for utility-furnished water in the US. They are give positive readings for fully safe conditioned water. these are not false positives, they are real and true, but ammonium ion is not harmful, just as chloride ion is not harmful at these concentrations. The tests are inappropriate for contemporary use as they read TAN only. Appropriate tests must be able to read free-ammonia dissolved gas.

HTH

[bastallard]

I think that 80% daily water changes would lower the ammonia levels well below the optimal level for cycling thus slowing it.

[kezzerone]

So I have been doing approx. 60-70% water changes almost daily now for the past 5 days now and I'm still showing about 2.0 ppm nitrites and 20 ppm nitrates. Each time I change the water I vacuum the gravel too. I'm starting to get a bit discouraged. It's now been about a month of cycling and I'm still not seeing a drop in the nitrites. Am I doing something wrong? When is this flipping tank going to stabilize???!!

[RTR]

The optimum level for fishless cycling and the optimum level for a tank with fish are two radically different things. If you have a fish in the tank, the optimum level for ammonia is undetectable (i.e., 'zero' on hobby-grade test kits). Anything else is risky to damaging to the the fish. Burned gills cannot transfer O2 effectively.

The tank will still cycle with "undetectable" ammonia levels. I have done it using field grade test kits, just to prove to myself that it works, and it does.

Just because hobby kits say "zero" does not mean there is no ammonia present, there is. It is just below detection levels by hobby-grade test kits.

If you sacrifice your fish's health and possibly life to get the tank cycled in a short time, just what is that you think that you have accomplished? That is not good fish-keeping by anybody's definition. That is why fishless cycling was developed. But there is no such thing as fishless cycling with fish, that is a contradiction in terms. Don't confuse the two different techniques.