NUEROTIC FIG 8 PUFF!!! HELP

[tinaw]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum and the puffer hobby as well. I have done a lot of research regarding figure 8's and felt that I had a good grasp on what to expect. So I dove in, bought a fig 8 about an inch big, bright colors, clear eyes and fat. My SG is 1.005, pH: 8.0, tank: 12 gallons,water temp:79 Tank mates: Ghost shrimp. I have had him/her for almost a week and it is so crazy. It swims up and down the glass, seems very afraid when I come up to the tank, doesn't eat in my presence, so I cant tell if its eating the food off the bottom (blood worms/brine shrimp) or if the 5 ghost shrimp are eating the food. Also, I put an air stone in the tank and it just swims by the bubbles as well. I really want this to workout, its a beautiful puff. Ive been in the freshwater and saltwater hobby for years, and I don't want to give up!!! All suggestions are needed!!!!!

[Jayhawk]

I'll assume you cycled your tank first since you've been in the FW and SW hobby so long, but it is helpful to know how you cycled it and/or how long the tank has been up and running.

What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings?

Did he come from the LFS and go straight into 1.005 SG water and if so, was he in that SG water at the LFS?

How was his belly at the LFS - was it sunken, straight or full like he'd eaten recently?

What's the tank like? Good hiding places, fake plants, caves? They like a diverse environment to explore.

Odds are, your figure 8 is just adjusting to the new environment. Don't overfeed. Try some small snails (ramshorns or common pond - but not malaysian trumpet snails) - you may have to crush them first to get the puffer interested.

Also, try hiding out of sight after putting some food in. They're smart fish, and he could be eating when the scary simian is in the room (you never know what those monkey types might do).

My figure 8 did OK right from the store (except for a bout of ich), but when I moved him from a 10 gallon to a 20 gallon he hid, wouldn't eat, and acted weird for about a week.

Eric

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

The "up 'n down dance" is common. I don't know if they see their reflection in the glass & are responding to it and I haven't been able to bring myself to allow the glass to foul with diatoms to test that theory. He may be bored. Adding complexity helps a lot - they like to explore caves, fake logs, fake mangrove roots, plants (real and plastic or silk).

As you've seen, they certainly do notice you outside the tank. Mine come over like Pavlov's dogs when they see me because they associate me with food. If you can answer Jayhawk's questions, it will be easier to tell what's going on.

How did he behave at the LFS tank? Was he feeding there?

[tinaw]

Yes my tank has been cycled. All readings are within normal limits. The tank has been up for a little over a year. I actually had it originally as a salt tank with the intention of setting up a minuature reef, however water perameters are extremely difficult to balance in a 12 gallon nanocube when dealing with liverock, fish, etc...so I moved all my little saltwater friends into a nice 40 gallon live reef setting and converted the cube into a freshwater setting (a lot of work) and then slowly converted into brackish conditions. I did use my hydrometer to check the SG of the water from LFS and it read at 1.003 so I tried to slowly acclimate the 8 to 1.005. I did this for about 25 mins, I get wary of long acclimations as this stresses the fish making them suseptible to infection and disease. The tank is aquascaped with fake plants, I stopped doing live plants because of a massive snail infestation. I have also put together a cave with several openings from different sides. I did make sure to make the enviornment as stimulating as possible. His/her stomach looked full and well fed at the LFS. I hope it comes around. Thanks for the tips.

[Pufferpunk]

I bet you wish you had those snails now!

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

I don't think you did anything wrong.
Maybe try some different foods to tame this wild character? I don't know a F8 that doesn't love a small chunk of shrimp from the seafood counter (the kind you buy for yourself). I cut the shrimp leaving the shell on and freeze the small chunks, then thaw them in Zoe vitamin when ready to feed and drop them in. It almost never reaches the bottom.

I have a preference to wild-caught gulf or southern east coast shrimp at the seafood counter rather than aquaculture shrimp - maybe just a personal bias but I think the shells of wild shrimp are harder and that should be better for their teeth. But if you can't get wild shrimp, I'd use aquaculture shrimp. The smaller grades have a larger proportion of shell to meat and they are cheaper too.

[YBeNormal]

I freeze the shrimp *then* cut them into chunks using a serrated knife. I find it is much easier to keep the shell from coming off when I do it this way.

[Pamela]

He sounds ok to me...but he probably is bored...he's playing in the bubbles...that's quite common puffer behaviour. He'll settle in, just sit quietly and still by his tank for a while every day and he'll get used to you.
Pami.

[Jayhawk]

Hi again Tinaw - I agree with everyone else - it sounds like you did everything perfectly and the puffer is probably fine.

Trying different foods as suggested can be great. If you have any small ramshorns or pond snails (or can get a few from your LFSs planted tanks - I often get them for free or a bagful for a buck since I'm helping them, but you have to phrase it like "hey, can I help you guys out by tanking some of those nuisance snails that are infesting your planted tank?"). A slightly crushed snail dumped in the tank is another treat most puffers won't pass by.

Keep us posted!

Eric

[The Fisherman]

My F8 was the same way when i got him, and he still swims upand down the glass. He still kinda freaks out when i move to fast near his tank, but hes doing a lot better. I had trouble feeding my F8, I was using frozen clam, so i tried a different food, and he ate it!( frozen krill) turns out my F8 was just picky about his foods.



good luck!

-John

[RTR]

And never forget that while we are training our puffers, they are not at all bad at training US!

A new pufer tends to be skittish, it does take weeks to sometimes even months for them to really settle down. They adjust to tank foods, we adjust their setups, they learn to beg, and we try very hard not to overfeed.

[tinaw]

Thank you all for the advice! I did forget to mention that I did put a tiny piece of shrimp in the tank, and it sat in the tank for 3 days, but the fourth day it was gone and I highly doubt the ghost shrimps ate it. Also, Im assuming that the shell should be left on the piece of shrimp so that it can grind down its teeth. And yes I really do wish i had those snails right about now...Im going to my LFS tommorow to get some. Any other advice or tidbits, please keep them comming!!!!!

[tinaw]

Oh one more thing....What do the eggs of a F8 look like? I noticed a few days ago a gelatinous mass of eggs. My cleaner shrimp in my salt tank carries its eggs within its tail in between its swimmers. Are F8's known to lay eggs anywhere or in specific areas...they look too big to be shrimp eggs.

[YBeNormal]

My GSPs are in an area in the basement where humans are normally at least 10 feet away and obviously pose no risk to them. I spend some time around the tank where they can see me up close, but not enough for them to develop a real trust or to become entirely comfortable with humans and other large objects moving around in near proximity. They will come to the glass and beg for food, even eat out of my hands or nibble on my fingers if I am not careful, but they are still a little skittish even after being in my care for almost a year now and will jump at any sudden movements.

I agree w/ RTR on overfeeding. I used to feed them much more (proportionate to their sizes) and much more often than I do now. While they may beg constantly for food, I now only feed them every two or three days and just enough to give them a well rounded tummy. They are still quite healthy with the smaller and less frequent portions and the tank stays much cleaner than before.

[Pufferpunk]

Never leave rotting food in your tank. Take uneaten food out after an hour. It will crash your system.

More than likely fish poop, not eggs.