Puffer Sick / Dying?

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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minerva
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:37 am

Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by minerva »

I am so upset - my puffer looks horribly sick today. I went to feed the fish before leaving for work and normally he keeps watch for me and sails out of his 'cave' to be fed. Today I couldn't see him anywhere at first, and then noticed him lying on the sand in a corner. His breathing seems to be slow and he is definitely in distress. He puffs up at intervals, then slowly deflates. I noticed him once spinning around while he was puffed up, but mostly he is lying flat on the sand.

Anyone had their puffer do this before? My only suspicion is that he ate a LOT yesterday so could be having some problems digesting the meal? He is a 3 inch porcupine puffer and he ate 1 cube of frozen squid (the prepared stuff from the fish store) and 3 krill (Sally's). You know how puffers get that bulge in their stomach after they eat? His stomach looked quite round and when he deflated today, I saw that the food still seems to be in his stomach as it has moved more towards his tail but is obviously not digested yet.

About the tank:

- cleaned it yesterday (clean about once every 2 weeks lately)
- started my sump running yesterday (it had been off for a while due to plumbing problems)
- topped up the fresh water yesterday (salinity is low: 1.020)
- tank is ~2 years old, puffer is older than tank
- other inhabitants: 2 clowns and 1 lunare wrasse

The other fish are behaving perfectly normal. Any ideas? Recommendations? I have to leave for work now but gosh I hope he makes it through the day. :( He is my favourite fish and has never had any problems before. I will check back on my lunch break and if you guys recommend any medicine or anything I will check in the fish store on my way home to pick it up.

THanks for any help you can offer, I am so worried about him.

-minerva
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Tony_W_
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:30 pm
My Puffers: 6 inch Porcupine puffer
5 inch black saddled valentini toby puffer
Location (country): USA

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by Tony_W_ »

How large is your tank?
Also you said your sump has been off, did that cause a nitrate jump? I would check your water parameters. The salt seems to low. We keep ours at 1.025. It sounds like he is having trouble breathing. Did you have a good water flow without the sump running?
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minerva
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:37 am

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by minerva »

My tank is 90 gallons. I didn't have a chance to check nitrates before I left for work but I'm going to as soon as I get home. Would you use a product designed to bring nitrates down quickly? Or just a plain old water change? I got someone to check on him and he's still alive but lying on the sand and not moving.

-minerva
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Flutter
Former Staff Member
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Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by Flutter »

Water change.
It is absurd to talk of one animal being higher than another. We consider those, when the cerebral structure/intellectual faculties most developed, as highest. A bee doubtless would when the instincts were.
Charles Darwin
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LilGreenPuffer
Former Staff Member
Posts: 5301
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)

RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond.
Location (country): United States
Location: Kentucky

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Big water change!

Also, can you tell us the answers to ALL of the red questions, especially about ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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Tony_W_
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:30 pm
My Puffers: 6 inch Porcupine puffer
5 inch black saddled valentini toby puffer
Location (country): USA

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by Tony_W_ »

I would not put anything as far as nitrate lowering or medication in your tank until you know what the problem is. I would always recommend a water change to reduce nitrate if that is the problem.
Definity check your water parameters.
Also look very closely at the fish for any small white spots. Difficulty breathing could be ich related. Have you introduced anything new to the tank recently?
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by Pufferpunk »

For FOWLR, a SG of 1.020 is good. I do agree with Tony about the sump issue. What do you keep in your sump?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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minerva
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:37 am

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by minerva »

Thanks guys. I got home and started testing right away. Keep in mind I have Nutrafin test kits (by Hagen) so they are not the most accurate things in the world.

Salinity: 1.020
Nitrate: 0 or 5 mg/L
Ammonia: 0 or 0.1 mg/L
pH: 8.3 or 8.5

The pH seems to be a bit high but matching the test tube to the proper colour isn't the most accurate way of doing things. :( All the other chemistry seems ok.

Sump: has a skimmer, heater, baffles, floss for mechanical filtration, and carbon.

Fish: added the Lunare Wrasse more than 3 weeks ago.

Appearance: just checked him and he does not appear to have ich. I have seen it before a couple years ago. I'm really thinking he ate way to much and has maybe got an obstruction of some kind. I did not stay to watch him finish his meal yesterday so it is possible he grabbed the cube of squid and ate it whole, although he has done that before without ill effects.

-minerva



-minerva
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Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32976
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:
Contact Pufferpunk

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by Pufferpunk »

Nitrite please? Possibly the bacteria in the floss is the problem. Change that out for sure. Something as soft as squid shouldn't give him a digestive problem.

What salt are you using? Are you adding any buffers for pH?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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minerva
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:37 am

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by minerva »

Floss - new as of last night, but will change it out again
Salt - I use Instant Ocean
pH buffers - have never used before


He got up off the sand and swam a tiny bit before lying down flat on the sand bed again. He has not puffed up or spun in circles since I've come home from work.

-minerva
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LilGreenPuffer
Former Staff Member
Posts: 5301
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
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My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)

RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond.
Location (country): United States
Location: Kentucky

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Nitrite?

Did you do a water change? I'd do a very large one. Water changes never hurt and usually help.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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minerva
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:37 am

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by minerva »

Nitrite is 0.1 mg/L. He is looking somewhat better today. I haven't seen him puffed up or spinning in circles. He is still lying on the sand in the corner and looks like he's breathing slowly.

HOWEVER - when I fed the clowns this morning (flakes, because he hates those and I didn't want him to eat if he was stressed) he actually started swimming towards the top like he normally does at feeding time. He was REALLY slow and not at all like himself but at least he got up off the sand. He floated (not really swimming) around for 2 minutes and then went back to the corner and lowered himself onto the sand.

Will be doing a 20 gallon water change now that I have enough RO water on hand.

-minerva.
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Flutter
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Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by Flutter »

Let us know what it is after the WC :)
It is absurd to talk of one animal being higher than another. We consider those, when the cerebral structure/intellectual faculties most developed, as highest. A bee doubtless would when the instincts were.
Charles Darwin
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User avatar
LilGreenPuffer
Former Staff Member
Posts: 5301
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)

RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond.
Location (country): United States
Location: Kentucky

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

What size is the tank? If it's big enough for all those fish, you'll need to do a much bigger w/c than 20g to make a substantial difference.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Top
minerva
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:37 am

Re: Puffer Sick / Dying?

Post by minerva »

4 small fish in a 90 gallon tank. I am really thinking something is wrong with HIM since all the other fish are fine and the water chemistry is decent. I am going to do the water change anyway, though, to be on the safe side.

He still looks a bit bulgy towards the tail end. Could he have an air bubble inside he since he had been puffing so much? I saw another thread on here somewhere about 'burping' pufferfish. Would it hurt to try? What if it's food that he can't pass through?

-minerva
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