SAP question

[guesty1982]

Hi all, i have a SAP and i just to know what i can feed him to keep his beek down? I have tryed snails but he does'nt seem interested?

[Pufferpunk]

Have you tried crushing the snails? Unless 90% of his diet are snails, plan on doing dentistry on him every 4 months or so.

[pufferpuggirl]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but back when I had my SAP's, they would not take snails either, and they had to have their teeth trimmed manually. I tried crushing them, and it didn't matter. They are lovely puffers, but doing the dentistry is the downside of owning them.

[lil fish]

I was just going to ask the same question! Lil fish will not eat the snails, crushed or whole. I tried shrimp, and he doesnt seem to be interested.

Puffergirl and pufferpunk, have either of you actually trimmed their teeth yourselves? Ive read the articles. Im up in the air about clove oil vs the MS-220 (?). Which do you recommend if youve done it yourselves. Also where can I get clippers small enough? Lil fish is my first ever puffer. I love him to death, caring for him is very much a learning process. Things like water changes, and types of food can be afforded mistakes, but I would never be able to forgive myself if I tried to sedate him for teeth trimming and something went wrong.
Nervous,
Lil Fish

[pufferpuggirl]

I do know how you feel lil fish .... I attempted to trim the teeth myself, only not my SAP, but one of my redeye puffers (an irrubesco female). However I found out that my eyes aren't good enough to see their tiny little mouths. I had sedated the puffer and was all ready to go, but I just could not see good enough and I did not want to hurt the little thing, so I didn't do anything. I put her in the fresh water and brought her out of sedation. I did have SAP's at the same time though. I ended up having my friend come and do the trimming for me. He works on models and things like that, so he's used to looking at tiny objects, and he does all the trimming now. I bought something called 'Koi Sedate' by Kusuri, it's obviously made to sedate Koi, but I did a trial on a guppy before I tried it on my puffer and it worked fine. I would not use Clove oil that's for sure. But my friend doesn't use anything, he doesn't like sedating the puffers, and I've watched him doing the trimming and it works for him, so I'm okay with him not sedating them.
I ordered some small cuticle cutters off eBay and they are nice because they are just smaller than the ones a person would use. They just fit perfect in the little puffers mouth. So I would look around at cuticle cutters and see what you can find. I would think that even the regular sized ones would work okay, if you can't find the smaller ones.

[Pufferpunk]

Time for bifocals?

[pufferpuggirl]

Yeah, believe it or not, I've got them .... probably time for a glasses upgrade, but now that I'm over here, a pair of glasses like mine will cost a small fortune. So for now, I will use a proxy to do my puffer dental work.

[RTR]

This is a technology era - the world is full of electronic aids for the visually limited or handicapped. I have quite a selection. Some are wonderfully user-friendly, others are not so much, but without them my life would not be nearly so normal as it is. They do make my frequent glases replacements seem reasonably priced however. CCTVs (closed circuit televisions) are the biggie these days - for shaving (or make-up, or close-up of fish dental plates) and even hand-held for reading labels at the LFS or grocery.

If you do not have the means yourself, there are lots of foundations and organization to assist.

[Myaj]

I actually haven't had a chance to use MS222 yet (I have a bottle sitting here, just no one to use it on!) but I have used clove oil repeatedly in the past.

I will not use it again, unless it is an emergency. Every time I used the clove oil, my SAP's would take longer and longer to wake up. I kept reducing the dosage each time, and made sure I was using a glass bowl that I washed and washed afterwords (plastic can absorb the oil so next time you accidently double dose them).

Eventually, my remaining SAP just didn't wake up one day from the sedation. At that point, I think I was down to a single drop in a good size bowl of water (about twice the size of a standard Cool Whip container).

Back then, we couldn't easily get MS222.. which is why I bought a bottle as soon as it was available and keep it on hand, just in case!

For the trimming itself, the first time is the worst.. since you just don't know exactly what you are doing and your big fingers get in the way. Don't squeeze the fish! Pull their lips back and double check that you aren't going to cut anything other than the teeth, and get them into their recovery water quickly.

They are quite tough and resilient fish.. trimming their teeth is harder on us than on them I believe

But with the snails, yes, try fasting them for a few days so they are nice and hungry, then crush (or partially crush) a snail and let them get a "taste". And remember, the best size snail is the same size as the puffer's eye, any larger than that and they may have trouble crunching it simply because they can't get it in their mouth.

[omplmpa3]

I use the MS222, aka Finquel, and I've noticed that recovery is almost immediate after I place the patient in the non-medicated water. I've also observed a considerable color change in their skin when they are coming out of the sedation.

[lil fish]

Wow thank you so much everyone!! I really appreciate your response, it makes me feel a lot better! How much of the MS-222 do I use per coolwhip sized container? I read on the pufferlibrary that its 3 drops per cup, but thats if you want to put them out of their misery. Also where would I get ahold of some, can I buy it at the store, or do I have to do it online?

[Pufferpunk]

You can buy Finquel at: http://www.drsfostersmith.com. Check out the Gen Disc forum for rebates for them.

The 3 drops were for clove oil. Finqel is a powder. I use 1/5 of 1/4 tsp in 3 cups water.

[omplmpa3]

I read on the pufferlibrary that its 3 drops per cup

This is referring to the clove oil. If you use Finquel, which is a powder, use about 1/5 of a teaspoon. Thank you to everyone who recently helped me figure this one out!

[Pufferpunk]

I used 1/5 of a 1/4 tsp. 1/4 less than you are suggesting.

[rachy]

i trimmed all 8 of my saps teeth last night for the 1st time ever using that koi sedate that pufferpuggirl mentioned worked well, and all the puffs are fine now, but like she says it is quite hard tosee what ur doing, the beaks are tiny!