My last GSP died, can you help?

[chiang01]

Hi,

My last puffer died a week ago and I am hoping that someone can tell me where I went wrong so I can try some again.

Current tank conditions
pH 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates 40
spec grav 1.005

I first set up my 20 gallon tank the first week in January and adjusted the gravity to 1.005 with sea salt and let my small Penguin power filter run for several days but didn't actually cycle the tank. I then bought 2 F8's (about 1.5" long) and 2 GSP's (about 1" long).

I was feeding them frozen brine shrimp and they seemed to be doing okay and getting along pretty well, but after a couple of days, one of the GSP's was curling up and swimming sideways and died the next day. The other 3 were looking fine. I was doing 20% water changes every 3-4 days.

After the first one died, I decided that I should start testing the water. The first time I tested, I got NH3 of 2 and NO3 of 10. The ammonia went down slowly until it was 0.25 a week later. In another week, the nitrate had climbed to 40. This is pretty much where the tank has stayed since then.

About this time, I also added some washed CaribSea Ocean Direct sand over the gravel in half the tank.Things seemed fine, the 3 puffers were getting along fine and I was feeding them frozen brine shrimp and the occasionally cocktail shrimp tails or crab shell with some crabmeat inside. They all ate fairly vigorously.

Over the next week, the F8's were starting to slow down on their eating, but they seemed healthy. The GSP was still eating well.

I had bought some distilled water, which I thought would keep the nitrate a little lower, and I did a water change and added the 3 gallons of distilled after first adjusting the gravity to 1.005

It was the next day after this that I lost the first F8. He was very weak and was barely alive in the morning and died soon after. It was then I discovered that the pH was down to 7.8 and the nitrate was up to 80. I did an 80% water change using tap water and adjusted everything before I added the water to the aquarium. The nitrates were down to 20 after the change and the pH was up to 8. I lost the 2nd F8 the next day, but the remaining GSP survived and was doing fine.

The remaining GSP was the most aggressive one from the beginning and we had named him Spike. Over the next few weeks, his appetite also slacked off, although he continued to eat the frozen brine shrimp, he lost interest in the shrimp tails and crab meat. I bought 3 ghost shrimp, which he didn't try to eat.

Sadly, the ghost shrimp are the only things alive in the tank now. Spike eventually lost his appetite, grew weaker and started just drifting in the water until he died a few days ago. I had him for about 5 weeks.

If you would like to see videos of Spike and one of the F8's, it is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u59CIapHMRM

This video of Spike was taken a week and a half before he died:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OyAG9DANVw

I am planning to get another puffer (just one at a time from now on) soon, but I would sure appreciate any help you all can give me. I have been reading this forum for the last month and find it incredibly useful, but I was unable to figure out how to keep my poor puffers alive.

Thanks!

Don Crozier
Ofallon, Missouri (near St Louis)

[Pufferpunk]

Wow, so sorry for all that loss in your tank, Puffers are one of the worst fish to cycle a tank with. They have no scale or gill covers, no protection from the very toxic ammonia nitrite that cycling produces.

Even thought it sounds like the tank finally did cycle, your overstocked tank with high ammonia & nitrite was just too much for them, did enough permanent damage to kill them.

Now that you have an empty tank. Start reading! You can keep this tank cycled by adding ammonia, as per this article: library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/

GSP: library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/
F8: library/puffers-in-focus/fig8/

[chiang01]

Thank you so much. I never realized how important tank cycling is until I started reading your forum. So I guess that all of the fish were so stressed from the initially uncycled tank that they were too weakened to survive.

I was surprised that they went downhill so quickly. One day they were active and happy, the next they were looking a bit peaked, the next they died.

The ghost shrimp still seem to be doing fine and are noticeably more active now that Spike is gone. Spike seemed to regard them more as a curiosity than food. If they were in his way when he wanted to duck through a narrow opening in the rocks, he would pause for just a bit, then nudge them out of his way.

I'm going to look for some bumblebee gobies soon and just one F8 or GSP, whatever looks healthy. I am also thinking about setting up a small freshwater tank for plants and snails.

Thanks!

Don

[Pufferpunk]

Just be sure you have completed your fishless cycling, before you purchase ANY fish!

[chiang01]

> Just be sure you have completed your fishless cycling, before you purchase ANY fish!

Isn't the tank already cycled? I've kept the tank just as it was with the power filter going, etc, and am feeding the ghost shrimp every 3 days or so. I thought as long as the NH3 / NO2 / NO3 levels stay as they are, the tank would be fine.

[Myaj]

With no fish in the tank to keep it cycled, the bacteria will die off to only support what is in there (the shrimp). Add a larger source of ammonia (a new fish) and it will have to recycle again.

Two things that are sticking out here for me...

One is that your tank isn't big enough for a GSP, they need 30 gallons minimum, so stick to one Figure 8 and maybe a couple bumblebee gobies.

Two, do you know what water changes are? If you do 50% weekly, and don't overstock the tank, that will keep your levels nicely under control ( you want nitrates under 20, preferably under 10 for puffers). Clean water means healthy fish, and its the cheapest, easiest way to keep them happy and healthy.

[Pufferpunk]

A few ghost shrimp will not put out enough bioload to support the bacteria needed to combat a puffer's waste. If you can find Dr Tim's bacteria product (NOTHING ELSE WILL DO!!!), you could add that to your filter at the same time as your fish.

[chiang01]

> the bacteria will die off to only support what is in there

OK, now I understand.

I've been doing 20% water changes every 3-4 days. I tested my tap water once before I added it back to the tank and the NO3 level was 10, so that's why I tried the distilled.

Thanks!

Don

[chiang01]

Thanks again, I'll check out Dr Tims!

don