GSP and friends

[puckingFuffers]

I just got a green spotted puffer last week and put him in a 55 gallon tank. He is pretty small in that big tank and I would like something else in there with him. The fish store had a moray eel that I was thinking about getting, will these two get along? If not, what do you suggest I get? Possibly another puffer? I would like to have a few fish in this big of a tank if possible, but I also know these guys need space.

Btw, I have a plecostomus (i think thats what its called, its an algae eater) in the tank with him right now. I am slowly moving from freshwater to brackish water.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Pufferpunk]

Interesting name... Your pleco won't appreciate any salt, so you'll have to re-home him. Another GSP would be good, otherwise, you'll have to wait until he's in SW to add marine tank mates.

[puckingFuffers]

Thanks for the welcome and glad you like the name

The fish store said that the pleco would be able to adapt to the salt if I slowly increase the amount. So far he seems to be doing fine.

If I get another GSP in the next few days will I have to worry about the first one being territorial? Are they going to learn to share?

Does anyone have experience with a moray eel in the same tank? They should have plenty of room in the tank i would think.

[Myaj]

Well, the pleco will NOT adjust to the salt. We are talking about marine salt here, not "aquarium salt" and a fish that eventually needs full marine conditions. No pleco can go full marine and survive, and chances are the puffer will "pick" at it until it dies anyways. I would rehome the pleco.. they do no good anyways, just poop a lot and grow to over a foot long.

For the eel, I don't know a ton about them, but my assumption would be theres a fair chance they'd at least TRY to eat the puffer. If they succeed, there's a good chance the toxins in the puffer will kill it. Also, the puffer may not be able to resist nipping at it. I would also research the tank size needed for a full grown moray, I believe it is larger than 55 gallons.

As far as two GSP's, its always a risk when it comes to aggression/territory. Especially as they get older and hit sexual maturity. So if you do it, be sure you have a place to move one of them to if it doesn't work out.

[Dadof4]

One full grown Moray, depending on species, requires anywhere from 75-200 gallons at full marine conditions. That's generally alone in a tank. They get huge, are fish eaters (yes, even the snowflake eels who require at least 75 gallons). They are strong and get very muscular, wonderful escape artists. They are beautiful creatures but really shouldn't be kept in a small tank, especially with a GSP. It actually can and usually will eat a GSP and it almost always ends up tragic for for the eel.

[OCgatergal]

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/ ... nmoray.php

I don't think they are compatible with GSP since a small one would most likely get chomped also tank may be too small

[puckingFuffers]

Well, looks like the eel would be a bad idea. My girlfriend loves the little puffer so I don't want anything bad to happen to him or to have to get rid of him, but the tank feels so empty with nothing else in it.

How fast does a GSP grow? When would I be able to go to a full marine tank? If he was in a marine tank, are there more options for tank mates?

Maybe adding more rocks/plants would make it feels more occupied, is there anywhere on this site that shows other peoples tank set ups?

Thank you for your opinions.

[nmonks]

While I take issue with the advice that GSPs must be kept in marine conditions when mature -- middling brackish water salinity suits them just fine -- it is fair to say that robust damselfish do seem to make the best tankmates for GSPs. There are of course some brackish water damsels, but I've seen a single species traded just once in 20-odd years, so don't hold your breath! In any event, the brackish/freshwater damsels are fairly dull, grey-brown little fish.

Your best bet is to wait until you raise the specific gravity to about 1.018 at 25 C, and then choose adult damsels of the type known to do well with GSPs (often the types that become bullies in reef tanks). Dominoes, humbugs, neon damsels, etc.

Cheers, Neale

[bigfatfish]

While I take issue with the advice that GSPs must be kept in marine conditions when mature -- middling brackish water salinity suits them just fine -- it is fair to say that robust damselfish do seem to make the best tankmates for GSPs. There are of course some brackish water damsels, but I've seen a single species traded just once in 20-odd years, so don't hold your breath! In any event, the brackish/freshwater damsels are fairly dull, grey-brown little fish.

Your best bet is to wait until you raise the specific gravity to about 1.018 at 25 C, and then choose adult damsels of the type known to do well with GSPs (often the types that become bullies in reef tanks). Dominoes, humbugs, neon damsels, etc.

Cheers, Neale

Is there some debate on the GSPs must go into marine then? Interesting. I was assuming that is what I should do eventually, but need to look into it a bit more. Although I had a GSP for just over 10 years, he was always in FW (simply cos I didn't know any better). So I want to make sure I do right by these 2.

[nmonks]

There's some lab work that suggests the GSP sperm is more motile in saltwater than in brackish or fresh. This would seem to indicate that they require fully marine conditions to breed.* However, so far as I'm aware no-one has yet collected them from marine environments. One should be careful about extrapolating a single data point under lab conditions into assumptions about actual life history.

In a nutshell, the advantages of maintaining them in full marine conditions are three-fold. Firstly, you get to use a skimmer, improving water quality (yes, you can use skimmers in middling brackish, but marine aquarium models work best in marine conditions). Secondly, you get to use live rock, which also improves water quality. And finally, a wider range of marine fish seem to live well alongside GSPs than from among freshwater or brackish water selections.

But having made those points, I'm not aware of any arguments that say GSPs do badly in properly maintained middling salinity brackish water aquaria. You might have to work harder to keep the nitrate levels low, and you might have a smaller selection of tankmates. But otherwise the choice is up to you. Indeed, you may decide the lower expenditure of salt means you could do more water changes, and so tackle nitrate concentration via dilution rather than skimming and/or live rock denitrification.

Cheers, Neale

*But you could hypothesise alternative explanations. For example, this might merely reflect phylogeny: perhaps GSP ancestors were marine, and since the sperm are motile enough for successful breeding in brackish water, there's no selection pressure in favour of sperm motility at less than marine salinities. Note I'm not saying that this is the case, merely pointing out that scientific facts can be explained in different ways, and without further facts, you can't necessarily be sure which explanation is the correct one.

[LilGreenPuffer]

They've been bred in marine conditions, and from what I heard and read about it, the sperm is not viable in BW or FW.

[Myaj]

And from what we've been seeing, even young GSP's moved into full marine conditions seem to have brighter colors and grow a bit faster. Not hard scientific evidence mind you, just hobbiest observations.

[nmonks]

Does anyone actually have a link to this famous paper? I've not read it, and only hear from people who've heard from people who've read it. Not very satisfying!

GSPs have been bred in non-marine conditions; see for example Baensch vol. 1.

Cheers, Neale

[Flutter]

If you guys give me the information about the paper I can get it for you guys and discretely send it out AS long as it's been published...

[Dadof4]

Not necessarily the paper itself but an article by the researchers published in TFH, August 2009.
http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200908/?p ... iend#pg101