A new home for 4 GSP's + which marine tankmates?

[pluxux]

Hello everyone!

I currently have 4 GSP's in a 220Litre (58gal) tank, i have had them for about 3 years now and theyre doing marvellous
(theyre about 5cm now (2inches).
But as they age they get bigger (duh) so i have to set up a bigger home for my friends. I have gotten a good offer on
a Aquamedic Percula 120 and i think im going to take it. It has a gross volume of 440litres (~120Gal) but since
all the equipment is in the back of the tank it has a net volume of 360litres (95 gal). GSP's need about 30gal per
fish so i was wondering if this tank would be adequate for them to grow old in.

Im thinking of making it a FOWLR tank, but my LFS has pointed out some very easy to maintain corals i could
put in there. While there the blue (regal/royal) tangs (they call them picasso doctorfish here i think its surgeonfish in english)
they had also caught my eye.
So i was wondering if i could put a blue tang and perhaps a pair of clownfish in the tank before i move the GSP's in there.
I know GSP's are mighty aggressive, but they don't seem to form a gang of any sorts, and since clownfish and tangs are
known to be capable of defending themselves i thought it may be possible to add those to my GSP tank.
My heart is not definately set on the clownfish, but ive heard they do well combined with GSP's, but im not sure.
I really like the tang so im really hoping that can go in there with my puffers, the one i would get would be at least
twice the size my puffers are now.

I know this is every aquariumkeepers disease, wanting more fish when they scale up, but my primary objective is to provide a great home
for my 4 puffers to grow old in, and i think another fishy will liven their day a bit, so long as they can live in harmony.

For the record i hate overstocked tanks, and i want all of the fish to be able to live out their lives together in the new
tank. At the moment the GSP's are fed exclusively on live foods (shrimp, blood worms and snails).

Does anyone have any experience keeping multiple GSP's with one to three other fish in a tank besides other puffers?

Any info would be welcome as i will probably be picking up the tank in a few days unless advised otherwise.

[Pufferpunk]

Considering GSPs require a minimum of 30g ea & your tank will only be
~95 (don'tforget the substrate & lots of decor they prefer), I definitely would not add any tank mates to the mix. Tangs require 90g ea & grow to ~18". Clown pair can become4 quite aggressive towards other fish, especially when spawning. I think you will find with 4 GSPs, that tank will be quite lively!

[pluxux]

Allright a puffer-only palace it will be! Will the 95Gal be enough to house all 4 of them
indefinately? Im really aiming for it to be their home for the next 15 years (and yes my GSP's
aim to live up to the point they will need little walker frames to get around the tank

I am still looking into how to make a live rock structure with enough passages and caves
in it; should the entire structure be built on live rock or should you build a foundation out of
dead rock? Since the tank will be quite big i reckon id need a whole lot of live rock if the entire
structure would be built out of live rock.

Also; does anyone have any experience with easy corals in a puffer tank? i hear GSP's are
coral safe which would be awesome cause that would give me some room to decorate some
more (unlike brackish for which no plants are available at my lfs).

[Pufferpunk]

I would rather see them in a larger tank, if possible. There is nothing wrong with starting with base (dead) rock for 90% of your rock structure & adding 10% live rock to that, to seed the dead rock. Much cheaper that way. Look for large pieces of shelf rock for caves.

GSPs are definitely not coral safe but you could try some bad-tasting ones, like mushrooms, leathers & xenia.

[pluxux]

how long do u think that 95gal tank will house them? Theyre 2" (5cm) now and from what ive seen they grow
about 1 cm a year but i dont know if theyll explode in marine since i hear they like that alot.

Im getting a pretty good deal on the complete tank with equipment for 350euros (~500us$)
The new tank will have to house them for 5 to 7 years minimum, since im a student atm im hoping
to be able to afford a new one in about that amount of time. If they wont be able to last 5 years
in that tank i may pass on it and hope i find a bigger affordable marine tank elsewhere.

[Pufferpunk]

My 2" GSPs grew to 6" within 2 years.

[busybones]

Just a thought but maybe you could put one in the 58gallon and three in the 90 gallon...if you wanted to maintain the two tanks that is..it would make the GSPs more comfy if you could do that for them...

Welcome to the Forum!

[Myaj]

That's what I was going to say Busybones, separate them. Put the biggest, most aggressive one in the 58.

Another option, but one you'd have to do now, is to set up a sump under the big tank. Depending on the stand and how much room you have, that could add water volume, enough to keep the qualtiy up. But that won't help with territorial problems, and aggression, which will get worse as they age.

[CarmenH]

I do have some easy corals in Douggie's tank, and he doesn't fuss with them... Xenia's and mushrooms, yes, but also a fox coral, a hammer coral, trumpet coral, and a few other tidbits. I haven't paid big bucks for anything, just in case... The tank is also cool, but everything seems to be thriving...

[bauk]

Heej landgenoot!

I also have 2 GSP's in 240ltr full marine.. but i think that is the max..
If you feed the GSP's before you put some corals in, i think they leave it alone!

Strange question maybe, but do you mean the tank of Herpen?

[pluxux]

Wow thanks for all the replies guys, im gonna throw replies allround, here goes:

@ pufferpunk: does that underline the fact they grow faster in saltwater? cause it looks like you have them in a marine tank,
i cant wait for my puffies to get that big as long as i can keep them happy ofcourse

@busybones: I will go and try to keep them together, i don't really have the space and cash for both tanks to keep running, ofcourse they will
run simultaniously for a few months while the saltwater tank is acclimatising. & tanks (ha-ha) for the welcome, this forum is allready great i shouldve
signed up 3 years ago

@Myaj: Eventhough 3 seem to get along as a group and 1 is a bit of an outsider, that one does kindof hold the reigns over the group, and i think
the fact the more timid ones are with 3 and the outsider is a bit more dominant it keeps them busy as a group, aside from feeding time they
all play nice with eachother, and even then theyre just mildly defending their little feeding areas. If they get into trouble in the big tank i guess
i would seperate the dominant one, but since i cant keep him in a second tank id have to place him in a better home somewhere, which i really
don't want to do since i really like all 4 of my buddies. PS. successful coral stories soothe my mind since me wantie corals in my puffer-palace to
be

@bauk Hey fellow dutchman! That is not a strange question because that is exactly the tank i was talking about but im going
to leave it since it won't house all 4 of them.

@ Carmen that puffer looks totally cool; is it really transparent like the picture suggest or am i seeing it wrong?

I've found another tank which has a bigger net volume and is allready converted to saltwater, its a juwel vision 450. since it does
have a sump it has a net volume of 450litres (120Gal). it is also a bit less deep and therefore a bit wider, which will help the GSP's
to avoid eachother a bit (its 151 x 61 x 64). Incidentally its the biggest tank i can house here, unless it would be a bit more deep,
but i hear bad things about tanks deeper than 70cm (maintanance and lighting wise).

Im going to post a picture as well so you can see the cruddy tank they are in now, its a 220litre tank and ive been battling algae since i have it (and tried to keep some brackish capable plants in it, which failed ofcourse). Since im weary of using additives to combat it im not winning this fight, LFS says water values are okay (i still need my own tester kit). its kind of hard to see but one of the 4 guys is swimming in the top-middle of the tank, the others are cavorting through the cavesystems somewhere. the right side has gravel with lavarock, and i made some caves and tunnels with piping below the substrate and in the back when i set the tank up. Theres sand on the right side with lots of mangrove wood. the wood on the right is just plain aquarium wood. At the moment, theres more mangrove wood there. The picture is from a month ago before a cleanup so i could show some people the algae. I change the contents of the tank every now and then to keep them busy and i had this lying around, and to clean the items of algae. about 50% of the water is changed every 2 weeks. The eheim powerball on the front right side is the secondary filter, i have an external eheim filter next to the tank. but as you can see theyre aching for a new home
I have another 50liter (13gal) tank set up as a snail jail / cherry shrimp breeding ground which is strangely enough entirely algae free.

its a terrible picture, but the only one i have atm of the tank.

[pluxux]

Okay so ive found another tank, that juwel vision 450. It has a net volume of 450litres (120Gal) and a sump below it.
Im not quite sure about the price the guy is asking for all the equipment though so i think i might take just the tank
and the sump. Ill get a decent pump and a skimmer later myself. How much flow would a tank this size need
in a FOWLR tank setup?
Whats the minimum lighting required for FOWLR? i think theres 4 large fluerescent tubes above it at the moment
but i want to keep it to a minimum power consumption and complicitywise. I hear FOWLR can get away with lower
amounts of lighting. Led lighting to simulate moonlight sounds nice so im thinking i may try that.
Im already letting go of the idea of corals and such since i want to be able to maintain the tank
for many years and my budget probably will not allow for the extra wattage needed for flow pumps and added lighting.

The guy wants 490 euros (700us$) for the tank with sump, lighting and live sand (which i may not use)
(pumps and skimmer not included, hes asking 200euros/290us$ for the skimmer). the tank is new and he says hes had it for
like 2 months and has the receipts for the stuff. I know this isnt really a consumer board or anything but since i don't
know any aquarists IRL i wanted to ask here if Is this a reasonable price for such a tank/ setup, and will it make my GSP's
happy for a long time?

[CarmenH]

LOL, Douggie is a nice, smooth, slightly iridescent olive green with an orange saddle
Sounds like a nice tank, I love that it's wide rather tank tall! As far as the price goes, IMHO it sounds pretty good, for being that new. If it was older, it would seem waaaaay too high. If you're going marine, I would definitely use the live sand! And you'll want a skimmer as soon as possible. A newby to marine myself, I've found it to be the best investment EVER! It gets out unbelievable loads of gunk! You will need pumps right away, too, in order to circulate water through the sump...
For the live rock to be an effective filter, you'll need lots of circulation in the tank...2 pumps, at least (maybe more?), with the currents colliding...
For fowlr (or even easy corals if you go that way) 4 fluorescent tubes should be fine, I've only got 3 on mine right now. Make sure the tubes are fresh (assuming he got the lights with the tank). If you're not sure, replace them. I've got 2 10,000k and an actinic but I'm sure others here will be able to better advise you on what to use.

[Myaj]

Does that include the stand as well? If so, that is a good price I believe. 120's are very nice shaped tanks, one of my favorites.

Your current setup is very nice looking, lots of things to explore, but of course green things would be nice.. sometimes you just can't do it, brackish can be very hard. That's why they make fake plants though The algae really doesn't look that bad to be honest.

BTW, your shrimp/snail tank is algae free because red cherry shrimp eat algae silly! They also can eat snail eggs so its best to not keep them together in general, if you are trying to raise snails.

[Pufferpunk]

Great deal on the entire system! Keep the sand, if you can.