Help GSP's with sunken sides and red lumps!!!

[Minxypuffers]

Hi all!

I am new to puffer keeping and am hoping that someone may be able to help my sick fish.

I have had 2 Green Spotted Puffers in my 60l tank for a couple of weeks now. I have had this tank going for a year and a half as a tropical community tank so well cycled and just added the appropriate amount of salt ( as reccommended by my local aquarist) to create brackish water. I do a 25% water change each week so water quality ok but no exact measurements for you as have run out of test kit chemicals.

Recently my little puffers tummys have been going black on and off. They both have sunken sides on one side of their tails just behind their side fins and one has the most awfull big red lumps, one under his mouth and one on his tum. What could this be and how do I treat????

I have been feeding a combination of black mosquito lavae (as per fish shop instructions), a small crab (poor fellow!), peas, cucumber and normal tropical flakes and wafers. Can't seem to find any snails at the moment, I guess they are off season???? I put a couple of apple snail shells in there and they have been attacking them ferociously.

No changes have been made to the tank and nothing has been added to treat.

Any help you can give me would be gratefully recieved!!

Thanks!

[losertastictoaster]

Gsp's tummy's sometimes go black when they are stressed, as for the lumps on them do you have any pictures that could help?

[PolishPuff]

They both have sunken sides

This could be a case of IP's this article will help.

library/hospital/internal-parasites-pre ... treatment/

[dab335]

I agree GSP's tummys do turn black! As for the red bumps, pics would def help

[busybones]

Welcome to the Forum! I'm going to jump in and say that you are in need of a tank upgrade...for your GSPs to be happy and healthy you would need at least a 227L (60) tank. Please check out our article one GSPs it will give you alot of good info on caring for your GSPs

ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Brackish/T_Nigroviridis/

[pufferpuggirl]

Well .... I think there's a couple of issues here, as to whether they are directly related to the problems you are seeing I am not sure. Internal parasites can cause a puffer's tummy to be sunken in and both GSP's and Ceylon puffers do tend to have bellies that go dark with regularity. Pictures of the red bumps would definitely be of use so we can see what that might be. You might want to get some Melafix on hand, just in case, although I'm not saying that will solve this puffers problem.
Other issues that you need to think about --
Your tank is really too small for 2 Green Spotted puffers. You are talking about a 60-liter tank, right? Well that's not very big and really, each puffer should have a 30-gallon tank (approx 117-liters). And I am also wondering .... you said that your tank has been going and was well cycled and then you added the appropriate amount of salt -- thing is, if you added too much salt at once, it has effectively killed the beneficial bacteria that were in the filter of your tank and now the tank is back to being uncycled. You really need to test the water, that's the only way you're going to know where you're at. But unless you added a little salt at a time, I would say that you've probably killed the bio-filter.
I'm also concerned about your puffer's diet. I really can't say if black mosquito larvae is very nutritious, but I'm guessing it's not, since bloodworm is alot like it. So you should be soaking those in vitamins before giving to your puffers. I also think you should quit the flake food, as puffers really don't get much from that either. You actually can get snails (buy them off eBay, that's what I do, they aren't very expensive). I give mine shrimp (both raw and cooked), earthworms, snails, bloodworms, and some of my puffers like mussels too. It also sounds like your little guys would greatly enjoy having some snails to bite on .... so look into that.
Also, just for your information (FYI), I would NOT have alot of faith in what fish shops tell you about puffers. Half of them think that ALL puffers belong in brackish water, and that's certainly not true. Quite a few people have been misled by shop employees ... so just beware. At least you've made it to this forum, and you can get all the information you need about your puffers, and all your questions answered either by the members or through the different articles in the library here online.
Try and get some photos of your puffers, so we can see what they are looking like and hopefully we can get them sorted.

[dab335]

Just to add, if you do end up using melafix make sure you get yourself an airstone and a pump!

[Minxypuffers]

Wow!!!

Thank you so much everybody! I really wish I had come on here before I bought them and not relied on the fish shop!!

I will try to get some pics of the lumps but one of the lumps has now turned very red and raw looking with a white head exactly like a nasty red white head on a teenagers face!

I hate seeing these poor creatures suffer especially as its my fault! I will try melafix and vit and minerals and adjust diet, hopefully it's not too late for them. When they are fully recovered I shall invest in a bigger tank for them. I think I may have killed the bacteria as I was told by the fish shop to add all the salt in one go!!!!!!!! Can you believe they also told me I could keep 2 GSP and 2 F8 in my 60l tank! I did question them but they were adament they would be fine. I will never ask them anything about my puffers again!

If anyone has any further helpful advice I would be super grateful.

Thanks again!

photos of red lumps to follow.........

[PolishPuff]

Can you believe they also told me I could keep 2 GSP and 2 F8 in my 60l tank! I did question them but they were adament they would be fine. I will never ask them anything about my puffers again!

That is why research is much needed be for you buy, My local "BIG BOX" store fooled me ones, shame on them. Since then I do ask questions online and dont be shy of asking anything on here.

[LilGreenPuffer]

What kind of salt did you use? Marine or "aquarium"?

What other fish are in the tank?

Perhaps later we can look into better housing and research, but I think first we need to concentrate on those lumps. Try to get a picture. They sound like abcesses. I would dose with Melafix, and I'd do a water change. Also, you need to get more tests and check water quality. Make sure to use liquid kits with test tubes. I like API brand. Make sure you have tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

By the way, welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you.

[pufferpuggirl]

Try not to feel too bad Minxypuffers, at least you care enough to try and find answers to what's troubling your puffers, so that's a good thing.

And yes, I can believe the LFS told you that you could keep all those fish in a 60-liter tank, they don't care because they want to make a sale, and it's better if you buy 4 fish instead of just one. And then if your fish die, they will hope that you will come back to replace them, and they keep making money off you. I think it's a shame that they don't give customers better information because I know people think that they are knowledgeable (well they should be, working in a fish store!) -- but at least there's this forum, which helps the puffer owner to educate themselves, so they can make better choices.

I think you probably did kill the bacteria in your filter, which means you now have your puffers in an uncycled tank -- which is not good. Since you don't have any testing supplies, I would start doing water changes each day, 50% -- and try to get a test kit so you can see where your nitrite level is. I'm tempted to say that you should just take the puffers back down to freshwater and start over. I mean, between the problems with your puffer having those red lumps and bumps, and the filter crashing .... well I think it's a waste to keep putting salt in the tank, especially as you're going to need to be doing frequent water changes to keep the nitrites down for the sake of your puffers. So I would get back down to freshwater .... your puffers can adjust really quickly. Then start again. Do you know anyone that you could borrow some filter media from (media that's been in a mature tank?) If you were closer, I could offer you some ... but I think you are a bit far from me. (I am near Worksop and Sheffield.)

Please let us know if the Melafix helps, and/or how the puffer is doing. I'd love to hear that he's getting better. So just keep working on it, and if you need any help, or have any questions, please feel free to ask any of us here, we're happy to help.

[Minxypuffers]

Hi again,

Thanks for your further posts, I am sooooooooo glad I found pufferforum! You are all being so wonderfully helpfull.

I tried to get a pic but my camera is not up to the job, will try some alternatives and hopefully get a pic up soon but yes an abcess (did I spell that right??) is defo what they look like.

They are looking a bit better this eve after their water change, I did add some salt again but just read pufferpuggirls helpfull post so shall ease off on the salt for now. I cant remember what salt was. LFS gave me bag and told me to add the whole bag to the tank, silly me didn't realise there are different types of salt. Will find out tom from LFS and post answer.

Am off to LFS to buy melafix and vit and mins tom morn and have been on ebay and purchased some pond snails and small red ramshorn snails so hopefully I'm on the right track.

I will keep posting on this thread and let you all know how they get on and probably ask lots more related questions.

TTFN and many thanks!

[Dadof4]

Ok, here is a good read written by a wonderfully intelligent author and puffer lover on how to properly mix brackish water. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19348
A great article on GSP's library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/
And since you probsably need to get the tank recycled in a hurry: library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/

You really need to pick up a test kit and test ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to see what state your bo filter is in.

[losertastictoaster]

Good luck with your puffers.

[LilGreenPuffer]

Ok, here is a good read written by a wonderfully intelligent author and puffer lover on how to properly mix brackish water. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19348

You are such a bad liar, Dad. Not about the puffer lover part, the first bit.



There's also an article on F8s that you should read: library/puffers-in-focus/fig8/