Help! J-P's Set up

[robert_hollis]

J-P, the only stuff I've ever read about lots of SAPs in one tank, was by people who stuffed waaaaaaay too many in a small tank. In fact I think there's a video on youtube of a 40g with like 20 SAPs in it...

Obviously you're not trying to stuff a whole lot in a small space, but since I don't have any real info, and I felt like posting, this is what you get... Other than that, I've only ever seen a whole lot of SAPs together at my LFS, and that was just until they could sell them.

You might try searching the boards on MFK for someone with several SAPs in a huge tank...

-Rob

[J-P]

Thank you!! See that's why we're here!! I never thought of that! (just slap me and call me stupid)

Re Flutter's question ... not sure what I'm going to do. Other than have a well seeded tank with no fish for a while..

[J-P]

Sorry Rob. No luck there. Everything pertaining to SAPs are in the 30-70 gal range.

Maybe just trial and error I suppose, If I can get them.

[J-P]

I got this on a seach for schooling puffers: Regarding DPs
"This is the smallest puffer fish in the world! Really, really small, no kidding! Actually, full grown they are just about the size of a dime...maybe! Not to be confused with aggressive Figure 8 Puffers or Green Spotted Puffers you might see at the pet store or all of the know-it-all's on the internet forums claiming these are aggressive. These are peaceful, and very beneficial in the aquarium as they eat small (we mean small) snails, mosquito and dragonfly larvae, and other aquatic bugs like mantis shrimp and plant leeches and other micro organisms. Remember, these are a schooling fish. KEEP THEM IN GROUPS, BIG GROUPS! Perhaps the people that have had aggressive dwarf puffers kept them secluded without any buddies, or maybe they had only a pair, where they were only defending themselves or their eggs. Other instances of fin-nipping might occur due to improper water parameters, lack of territorial borders, or a lack of quantity!! "

Now I am considering DPs over SAPs ... or in addition to (but not in the same tank). I am just a little worried about trimming a SAPs teeth .. especially when I've got like 20+ of them...

any thoughts?

[Flutter]

That's really interesting (haven't a clue if it's true at all). Personally I didn't have any aggression problems with my DPs but that's my only experience with them (I had 3).

I read that neons are more aggressive if they aren't kept in large enough groups. It would be neat if DPs actually turned out to be the same way.

[J-P]

Ok .. the tank is in and ready for cleaning and the leak test. All said and done, I think the room is coming together nicely.

Thankfully, I'm off tomorrow so I can relax a little amd maybe get this ball rolling

[Flutter]

Looks great!

Do you anticipate any noise problems from the TV for the fish? What sort of noise are fish able to handle comfortably?

[J-P]

The speakers I'll shift sideways to make room, but I don't anticipare any noise probs cause the amp powering the speakers is weak.. not really loud at all.

[PolishPuff]

I love this J-P,very nice job

[RTR]

The filter that you asked about is a de-nitrfication filter, and yes, they can work. But they are "fiddlely" - require much fine-tuning and if you goof may wipe out your tank. But even more important,why on earth would you want to selectively remove nitrate? Nitrate is the only easy/cheap/fast standard test we have that indicates pollution - all pollution. If you remove your best measure of nitrate, how will you monitor your water quality? Nitrate alone is a pollutant, yes, but it is only one of many, many pollutants - DOC (dissolved organic compounds), loss of certain required ions (calcium, magnesium, potassium, carbonates/bicarbonates, phosphates) and build-up to excess of other ion types to excess (chlorides, sodium, possibly phosphates again - it can be lacking or excess, etc.)? If you have no measure such as nitrate, how will you measure (read as: judge build-up over time?) pollution in your tank? Nitrate is your only easy guide. Remove that selectively and you are either kidding yourself or flying blind in a fog.

In a word. don't!

We assume that the build-up of most pollutants is proportional to that of nitrate. Not that they are all equal, but that the measure of one at least indicates the presence and significance of the others. If you do water changes in an un-planted tank sufficient to keep nitrate titer low, you have to assume that you are reducing the other pollutants in the same proportion. So nitrate is a valuable guide to water quality. Yes, it is a pollutant. But we can test for it. That makes it our guide.

BTW, nitrate is worthless as a guide in planted tanks, or in some tanks with deep substrates. Many planted tanks have to have nitrate added weekly. Not much of guide if we need to add it to keep the plants happy, is it? In planted tanks we do arbitrary 50% partials weekly to be sure that pollution is not more than 2x what we have added in the last week from all sources (food, fish and plant metabolism, supplements, etc.) and will be cut 50% by the water partial. Remove 50% of the water, you remove 50% of the pollution with it by that broad brush, no selectivity.

[RTR]

Re: SAPs

I have not seen significant schooling other than in a 50, back 1/3 heavily planted, ends lightly planted, front floor very lightly planted. Good current is required parallel to the front glass to get schooling for me (circular current when viewed from above). These are for part of the year main channel fish, although they hang toward the edges (clay or rock banks). For me a diet of at least 95% pest snails blocks most incisor overgrowth. I used mostly common pond snails, some small ramshorns in the right size range - all keeper-raised as feeders.

There used to be a ref on the web of breeding in the wild, which included much habitat data. Does anybody still have the ref? I don't find it easily.

[dlowis]

There used to be a ref on the web of breeding in the wild, which included much habitat data. Does anybody still have the ref? I don't find it easily.

Is this it ? library/puffers-in-focus/sap/

[J-P]

Thank you!!

I had ordered this pump a while ago before deciding to go with FW .. I was hoping to go full maring. Fish only with live rock as per Puffer Punk's suggestion. Unfortunately my situation changed .. changed jobs .. so to speak, and will not be able to afford a 500 gal marine tank at the moment.

So, it will sit until I can... haha I always have spare parts that I dig up years later. With full spectrum testing it might be a useful device, but that will be in the future.

[RTR]

No, the article was a scientific report, not at all a hobby publication.

[robert_hollis]

RTR

Perhaps it was this one?

http://horizon.documentation.ird.fr/exl ... /43866.pdf