Sick GSP's

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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GSP 3
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Sick GSP's

Post by GSP 3 »

Hey Everyone,

I've been reading the forums for the past couple weeks trying to help my 3 GSP's but they just keep recovering and getting sick again.

Had water tested 10 days ago when this all started, sorry i don't have hard numbers as i had it done at a LFS, but i looked at the colour charts and they were all as good as they could get as in no ammonia or nitrites, and about 20 nitrates. the guy working there said that the water was not the issue.

The tank is 30 gallons and there were 3 but now only 2 GSP's in it both about 1.5 maybe 2 inches long, i use instant ocean salt 2 tablespoons per gallon.

It started about 10 days ago with one of them gasping for air on the bottom of the tank, he was scratching against stuff in the tank and being very lethargic so i got some treatment for velvet. I started on that took the filter media out raised the tank to 85, did a 50% water change and turned off the light. The puffer seemed to recover for a few days but then started breathing heavy again and eventually died about 3 days ago :( very very sad. Since then I've been continuing to treat the other two puffers who seemed fine until this morning when i woke up the tank water had gone a little cloudy and i found one of them curled up in a ball with a very dark belly breathing very poorly, the other one was fine at the time. So i took both of them out put them in a bucket of fresh (brackish) water and did a 75% water change, this helped alot once i put them back in they seemed fine, i also brought the tank back down to 80 thinking that it might be an oxygen issue. Now over the past couple of hours the tank is going cloudy again and a few minutes ago they started swimming at the surface and breathing quickly as if they were trying to get air and then one of them seemed to stop breathing completely, so i quickly made a fresh bucket of water and transferred them to that with a heater and now they are swimming a bit more, i hate putting so much stress on these guys but I'm trying really hard to save them.

Also, before they got sick a had a large log in there that i got from nature, i took it out as soon as the first puffer started getting sick in case it might have had parasites but i cleaned it well before putting it in and hasn't been in there in about a week and ive done 2 large w/c's since then.

Thanks for the help.
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Jivenjune
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by Jivenjune »

From your description, your tank does not sound properly cycled. This is likely the cause of all your problems including your cloudy water.

In addition, it also sounds like your puffers are suffering from nitrite poisoning. If this is the case, medications will not do anything to help. Furthermore, puffers are sensitive fish, so it is often unwise to use any form of medication to begin with.

Do a significant water change (75-90 percent) while keeping the same salt level.

You should probably never actually have your filter media outside of water for too long, as you'll end up losing a lot of bacteria that way.

Best of luck.
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GSP 3
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by GSP 3 »

thanks for the help,

I'll do another w/c now, would putting some sort of live bacteria cycling product help?
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Yes. What salinity are you at?

Start pre-mixing salt water for your next change, too. Salt water should mix for about 24hrs before you put it in the tank.

Go get your water tested again. Ask for the EXACT numbers. Also, invest in a liquid test kit (NOT dip strips). You'll need ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. API is a good brand.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

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GSP 3
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by GSP 3 »

I'm not sure about my salinity i dont have a hydrometer i just measure the salt before i put it in but i do 2 tablespoons per gallon, i think that works out to about 1.006. So basically my plan right now is to put the filter media back in do a large water change and introduce some live bactera, what temperature should i be at and should i stop the velvet treatment? (they're still rubbing against rocks).
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GSP 3
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by GSP 3 »

also just to let you know they're are swimming and breathing fine in the bucket right now whick is very relieving
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

You absolutely must get a hydrometer or refractometer. You must.

Stop the velvet treatment. Medications for velvet and other external parasites can be fatal to puffers and other scaleless fish. Right now, it is the least of your worries.

Get the water back down to fresh. Introduce new bacteria. Do water changes every day. Get a test kit to keep track of your cycling process.

You need to follow the directions outlined here.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

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Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

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NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by pufferpuggirl »

I'm wondering if maybe you didn't cycle properly or had the tank cycled but by putting too much salt in killed the bacteria in the filter. It does sound as if the fish are reacting to an un-cycled tank. And if you can't get a good bacteria product, try and find someone with a mature filter sponge that you could have, or ask your LFS if they can give you some used filter media, that will help ALOT. If you're not able to get a mature filter sponge, or a good bacteria product, then you MUST do water changes daily until the tank gets itself sorted (cycled).
Were you putting the marine salt directly into the tank ? And just to let you know, any time you put the temperature up above 80F, I would have an airstone going to give the fish extra oxygen because oxygen is decreased when the temperatures go up. Silly question, but you are using a water conditioner or de-chlorinator, aren't you? Just trying to think of anything that might be causing these problems.
I hope you don't lose any more of your puffers and they both recover soon. Good luck! :)
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GSP 3
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by GSP 3 »

Ok i got the hard numbers from the LFS

salinity 1.009
ammonia 0 ppm
nitrate .75 ppm
nitrites .15 ppm
he said ph was "fine" it looked like about 7.2 to me

pretty bad but it could be worse so i've done a 75% water change and added a live bacteria cycling booster, temp is at 81.
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by busybones »

Yeah your Nitrites and Nitrates are way too high, The WC should help...I'd recommend doing these large water changes daily and leave your fish in the tank when you do so. Moving your fish may stress them out more than leaving them in. I wouldn't worry too much about PH, trying to alter it will only cause more problems..What type of bacteria did you use? I'm guessing you killed the established bacteria when you raised the Salinity all at once..You can only raise it by .002 to keep from killing your bacteria..Do you have a friend that can give you some filter media and decor from a healthy tank ? You may also think about adding some more air stones to help put more oxigen in the water...
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

LilGreenPuffer wrote:You absolutely must get a hydrometer or refractometer. You must.

Stop the velvet treatment. Medications for velvet and other external parasites can be fatal to puffers and other scaleless fish. Right now, it is the least of your worries.

Get the water back down to fresh. Introduce new bacteria. Do water changes every day. Get a test kit to keep track of your cycling process.

You need to follow the directions outlined here.
The directions... HERE. library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/

Can you tell us what brand of bacteria you used?
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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GSP 3
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by GSP 3 »

ok so should i keep the salinity the same while introducing the bacteria? The product i got is big al's multi-purpose bio support, big al's is a canadian chain that has always been great for me.
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Yes, keep the salinity the same until the tank is 100% cycled.

The only brands that work in FW are Dr. Tim's and Tetra SafeStart. SafeStart seems to be going downhill, though.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by OCgatergal »

I read somewhere that 1 cup of salt per 5 gallons to get 1.005 but after doing 2 cups I already got that amount from my 29g, I'd get a hydrometer when you can, if you store doesn't carry the one that measurement starts from 1.000 you need to get one that does. I got one from ebay for 5 bucks total
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Re: Sick GSP's

Post by Jivenjune »

The only issue with this is that different brands of marine salt change the salinity value of water differently. I generally don't like rules of thumb when it comes to fish. I like things to be exact so that I'm not causing any discomfort to my fat headed friends. Hydrometers are also pretty cheap. The Instant Ocean ones are about 7-10 bucks each, and they're pretty accurate. I measured mine against a calibrated refractometer, and they came out with the same readings on multiple tests.
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