Three new SAPs - Urgent, I'm losing the battle.

[By_a_coo]

Hi everyone!

Yesterday the LFS just recieved three SAPs, I didn't resist and bought them all. They are in a 20G QT right now, these are the water parameters:
Temp: 28°C/82.4°F
Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate: ZERO
GH/KH: < 1°dH
pH: 7.4
I'll do daily water changes of 5G siphoning all debris I can.

Well, I'm gonna refer to each puffer as a number since they don't have names yet.

#1puffer - The big one. He is a little bit skinny. Yesterday he was so stressed that he didn't eat anything, only paced up and down the glass. He didn't recognize snails and shrimp as food. Today he ate a lot of brine shrimp in the evening!!

#2puffer - He's not big neither small like the others. Yesterday, he ate 2 snails and today in the morning he ate some tiny earthworms. He was the smartest one, but when I've got home in the evening I noticed he had one clamped pectoral fin, swimming like he was lethargic and didn't eat the brine shrimp.

#3puffer - The smaller one and very skinny. Yesterday he was very stressed too and didn't eat anything. He also didn't recognize snails and shrimp as food and today, in the evening, he ate a lot of brine shrimp too!

A couple of minutes ago I did the water change and added melafake (homebrewed melafix). I also thought of adding some salt but I didn't since they don't have any sign of ick (thanks God!). Even though the #3 is very active I noticed he has some kind of bleeding at the end of the anal fin, like a bacterial attack, that's why I added the melafake.

Well, except #2 is acting a little bit lethargic, the others are acting very active but they are skinny (I don't know if they are like that because they are underfed or due to IPs). I'm offer them some brine shrimps until they recognize snails, clams, worms and shrimps as food. I didn't noticed any uncommon poo, the only poo I saw it was brownish and lokking like a pellet. I think that poo belongs to #2 since he was the only one who ate snails and earthworms, I'll check tomorrow if the others will have normal poos too. I don't know if I should deworm them. And I don't know what else to expect from #2 who is a little bit lethargic (but swimming around).

Am I doing everything ok? Is there anything else I can do?

[LilGreenPuffer]

Go ahead and deworm them.

Keep a close eye on that ammonia. 5g water changes per day won't keep it away.

Congratulations on the new guys! Pictures?

[busybones]

If your Nitrate is 0 your tank may not be fully cycled...Congrats on the new SAP's

[LilGreenPuffer]

I think it's not cycled at all, which is why he's doing daily water changes.

[By_a_coo]

Yeah, the quarentine tank is not cycled, as LiGreenPuffer said, I'm doing daily water changes. Today I've changed more than 80% of the total volume of water. I'm doing daily water changes because my tap water is very soft and has NO ammonia, No nitrites and almost ZERO nitrates. I think it is a good way of keeping the tank pristine, isn't it?

Today the #1 and #3 puffer ate medicaded (levamisole+metronidazole+praziquantel) brine shrimps in the morning and in the evening. I swear to God, they are not looking so skinny and their bellys aren't sunken anymore! Their poos are looking normal to me (pelleted and brownish).

Sorry about the pictures, it's not so good but you can see them.

This is the #1, the bigger one... he's zooming the tank looking for some brine shrimps.




This is the #2, the one that is getting worse. He's not eating yet (losing weight too fast), sometimes swimming a little lethargic and I noticed his back is peeling. I'm still adding melafake into the water. Could you please help me save him?




This is the #3, the smaller one, he's still very active like #1. He was the worst in shape, VERY skinny and now he's looking like getting some weight too, because he's not looking skinny anymore. You can see that bleeding in his anal fin is gone. I think that that fin is recovering.


Please, you can tell me if I'm doing something wrong.I'm still need help to get #2 better.

[LilGreenPuffer]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. The parasites might have just gotten too good a hold on #2. The only thing I can think of is force-feeding, but that seems a little extreme, since he's only been with you a day or two.

[omplmpa3]

When I got my SAP about 2 months ago he was about as skinny as your #2 looked, with some minor fin damage as well. I quarantined him in a ten gallon and treated with Melafix and Parasite Clear tabs by Jungle. The first I tried to treat the food with the medication but he refused to eat it, after a couple of days I decided to just treat the water and hope for the best. I added a lot of plants and some driftwood as well, to make him feel more secure. I did big water changes every other day, between 70-80% and put a bubble wand in at night for extra oxygen. I added Vita Chem to the water and to his frozen food as well. I fed him live blood/blackworms and snails. For frozen foods, I fed him Mysis shrimp, plankton and some little bits of krill. I never came across any stringy white poop to indicate I.P.s, but that’s not to say he didn't have them. Of course he may have just needed some decent meals to help him bulk up. It took about two weeks of good eating for him to look better and another two for him to look completely healthy.

It sounds like you are doing everything there is to be done. You might want to find an alternative to the brine shimp, I don't think they have a whole lot of nutritional value. Or if you want to keep using the brine shrimp, because they are eating it even after its been treated with the medication, maybe add a vitamin supplement to it or the water. Other than that, give it time. I know it's hard, I was pretty much a nervous wreck the whole quarantine period.

IMG_2687.jpg

[By_a_coo]

You might want to find an alternative to the brine shimp, I don't think they have a whole lot of nutritional value. Or if you want to keep using the brine shrimp, because they are eating it even after its been treated with the medication, maybe add a vitamin supplement to it or the water. Other than that, give it time. I know it's hard, I was pretty much a nervous wreck the whole quarantine period.

It seems brine shrimps don't have nutritional values for me either. I'm gonna buy some freezed dried bloodworms and see if they eat it. I try to offer shrimp every other day but they only "smell" it and swim away.

#1 and #3 are still eating the medicaded brine shrimp, and they're looking better day by day.

#2 is still not eating and he's getting worse and worse (loosing weight with clamped fins and his back is peeling).

Thanks for encouraging me, if your SAPs got better, now I have more hope in mine.

[omplmpa3]

Are the other SAPs giving #2 a chance to get to the food?

You may want to go ahead and treat the water with the meds if that's going to be the only way to get them to #2. But WAIT for an expert on that one! I'm not sure if it would be as a reduced dose or what.

Do you have access to live bloodworms? They are impossible for my puffers to resist. I also buy scallops and shrimp, uncooked, from the grocery store. Usually just one of each since they last me quite a while, the employees think I'm nuts. I'll slice them up into small bits and freeze them, then I just thaw one little piece at a time.

Good luck!

[By_a_coo]

No, the others don't bother #2 in the feeding time. Right now #2 is in a different tank due to the skin peeling (I don't know if it's a bacterial infection). Unfortunely, I can't get those Jungle's meds 'cause I live in Brazil.

I can treat the water with Levamisole and praziquantel, since the last time I tried to treat a SAP with metronidazol into the water, he started to feel bad and then died.

Everything I can get alive is brine shrimps, earthworms (I'm avoiding them for while) and snails. I guess I can get freezed bloodworms, if it helps.

I'm not sure if treating the water with those meds works, but I treated my 2 F8 in that way and they never ever showed any signs of IPs. I guess I should give a try.

[omplmpa3]

I would wait on treating the water until some with more knowledge about medications makes a post. I used the Parasite Clear Fizz Tabs when treated my SAP and that was the only time I've ever used a medication. I use Melafix and Pimafix for everything else. I don't know if the meds will make him weaker and because he is a puffer he may require a different dosage. So definitely wait for an expert. I would think the frozen bloodworms would work.

[eieio]

small, or chopped earthworms soaked in I.P. medicine may be your best bet
crickets are another good possibility
are you treating all of them at once, since they all came from the same source?

[By_a_coo]

are you treating all of them at once, since they all came from the same source?

Yes, they are being treated at once, except #2 (he is in another hospital tank) which is showing a peeling skin and sometimes lethargic swimming.

[By_a_coo]

Well, when I got home #2 was floating... only breathing. He was in so bad shape that I decided to stop his pain and put him to sleep. It was very painful for me but I couldn't let him there suffering. =( It's so hard to lose a puffer...

The others are still looking good, zooming the tank and eating.

[robert_hollis]

I'm sorry to hear that, but from what all you've had going on, that sounds like the best choice of action. You have my sympathy. Good luck with the other two.


Will you try to get another one to complete your trio again?

-Rob