May get a 3" Monotrete palembangensis

[emartin]

I may get a hold of a 3" Monotrete palembangensis for $35 (is that a good price?).

Would they be fine in water that is in the range of 7.5-8.5 pH? Currently that is what I am seeding my sponge filters at for extra tanks.

And would they be fine temporarily in a 20g-high (24"x12"x16") until they get larger (by then I will buy a 30g-breeder or 40g-breeder minimum so keeping the puffer for life isn't an issue for me) or would it be better off in a 20g-long (30"x12"x12"). I'd rather put it in the 20g high though if it will be fine in there.

And for diet at that size, would it be better off with thawed frozen krill, frozen plankton, brine shrimp, or snails?

Thanks,
~Ed

[Myaj]

Palembang Puffer profile: ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Freshwater/T_Palembangensis/

Basic info, lurker species, gets about 8", pretty aggressive and needs 40 gallons per specimen. Freshwater.

These guys are more of a hunter/lurker, so they don't need a strict diet of crunchy foods but it is still good for them. You can get away with a lot of nightcrawlers, raw uncooked shrimp, etc. Krill is never a good main diet for any fish, if they'll even eat it, save it for a snack. Otherwise, they just need a good varied diet like any puffer.

There are also a few articles in the library on this species, on keeping multiples together, etc. Check them out.

[emartin]

Thanks for the info...but what do you mean by:

Krill is never a good main diet for any fish

IMO and IME Krill is one of the best foods for fish... Obviously not as the staple diet for a non-carnivorous species but I always had great success with it.

Of course if you just meant that you would not feed it as the staple to puffers I understand. I just want to know.

For diet I was thinking of feeding any of the following frozen:
Krill
Plankton
Prawn (freshwater frozen river/grass/ghost shrimp, larger than store krill)
Clams
Store bought shrimp
Silversides

and I thought of setting up a snail breeding tank and some sort of annelid culture or meal worm culture.

~Ed

[Myaj]

Krill has quite a reputation for leading to deficiencies that cause lock jaw, among other issues. There's just not a ton of nutrition in it.

[emartin]

I never heard any of that.... My cichlids thrive on the stuff.. and here's the analysis for freeze dried Approximate Analysis: Protein - 60%, Fat - 10%, Fiber - 19%, Moisture - 6%.

and frozen Crude Protein Min 7.50%
Crude Fat Min 2.80%
Crude Fiber Max 0.80%
Moisture Max 90%
Dry Protein 75.00%

I obviously disagree that it isn't nutritional...


BUT, I am VERY curious as to what species you have heard krill causing problems in? It's the first I've heard of it and naturally I want to look into it...

~Ed

[Myaj]

Just do a forum search, you'll find plenty of info

[Pufferpunk]

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic72164-10-1.aspx

It is considered, "fish crack". For animals like fish, that need a varied diet, it can be very difficult to get them off krill & eating other foods.

[emartin]

I've never had any problems with krill with african cichlids and other tropical fish... Weird... They don't get addicted to it either . If anything, my guys are spoiled since I feed them Dainichi pellets and whenever I sell fish they REFUSE to eat whatever pellets they offer LOL (but readily eat flakes or frozen).

ANYWAY, would 1-2 be fine in a 20g-high or 20g-long at the 3" size for a little while? I'm only interested in getting maybe 1-2 so that this time (for those of you that read my green congo puffer topic) that I actually GET a puffer and can pick the healthier one for myself and sell off the other.

I could set two 20g tanks up for them if at even that size in a tank like that they won't leave each other alone but would rather not.

Let me know,
~Ed

[RD.]

There's nothing wrong with feeding most FW or SW species krill, as long as it doesn't become the main staple diet.
SA krill packs a LOT of nutrients in it, but if not balanced out, just like any nutrient can come with some excess baggage.
I would wager a bet that in krill the issue is high fluoride content, and would suggest that the parties involved in the study linked to by Pufferpunk take a close look in that area. A simple tweak of the calcium levels in a fishes overall diet can reduce the overall bioavailablity of the fluoride found in krill, to a tiny fraction of what it otherwise would have came in at. End of problem. (at least for the vast majority of fish) The fish get to enjoy all of the numerous health benefits & positive attributes of the krill, sans the fluoride baggage.

No nutritionist would recommend completely eliminating vitamin A, B, D, E or K from the diet just because high levels can be toxic to a fish. If your puffer becomes overly picky & refuses to eat any/all other foods, then that would be a different story.

[Pufferpunk]

Hey, great 1st post! Could you please post this info in the link for that Krill Study? I'm sure Kelly would appreciate it.

[RD.]

Thanks, perhaps someone that is a member on that forum can copy my comment & post it over there? I'm considering getting an M. palembangensis & came across this discussion and thought that I'd add my Canadian 2 cents to the mix.

[Dadof4]

Thanks, perhaps someone that is a member on that forum can copy my comment & post it over there? I'm considering getting an M. palembangensis & came across this discussion and thought that I'd add my Canadian 2 cents to the mix.

Isn't that about a buck fifty in US currency?

[RD.]

At the moment it's approx 95 cents.

[Pufferpunk]

I'm thinking the discussion might just go beyond your 1 post there.

[RD.]

While I like to consider myself as being very well versed in the subject of fish nutrition, I'm afraid that my overall experience with puffers is rather limited. I do know of a number of puffers that have been fed commercial pellets (as a major portion of their diet) which consisted of SA Krill as the main ingredient, and those fish are all still alive & doing well. But again, overall it's a very small trial group, consisting of a single Ceylon, and a small group of SA puffers. Two + years later and all fish are still very healthy, and no lock jaw issues. The SA puffers ate these pellets exclusively, with no other food source. Again, no health issues whatsoever in over 2 years on this diet. While I understand that this goes against the norm with puffer keepers, I couldn't argue with the results the owners were getting. The Ceylon is currently in a marine set up, and is still eating these same pellets as its main staple. I'm currently raising a pair of F8's that eat this same food, supplemented with shelled foods to keep their beak growth in check.

I think when one feeds any type of frozen/fresh/live food as the main or only food source, you will risk health issues from a lack of certain nutrients, or in some cases, such as possibly krill, an excess in certain naturally occurring substances.
No different if one feeds goldfish feeders exclusively to their marine fish, the end result is typically fat deposition in & around the liver. (and a much shortened lifespan)

I believe this is where the logic behind feeding a "wide variety" to fish originally came about. With the advancement in fish nutrition that's been made over the past 20 yrs, I personally don't feel that this is an issue if one feeds a well balanced commercial product made from a wide variety of high quality raw ingredients, but of course with puffers they still require shelled foods in order to keep their teeth in check. (unless one enjoys playing dentist)
The owner of the SA puffers mentioned above had to trim their teeth twice a year, so about the same as if they had been raised on shelled foods.