Filters

[Jivenjune]

I've heard something about hang-on filters being a bad choice for saltwater aquariums due to nitrite/nitrate? buildup. I was wondering if someone could clarify what kind of filter I should be using for a 60 gallon tank, aside from a sump filtration system that I currently cannot afford.

Thanks.

[LilGreenPuffer]

You should use one to one and a half pounds of live rock per gallon of water and a very good protein skimmer.

[Jivenjune]

You should use one to one and a half pounds of live rock per gallon of water and a very good protein skimmer.

So I wouldn't need an actual "filter" filter?

[Jivenjune]

I heard a hang-on filter is bad for saltwater aquariums. Why is this?

[LilGreenPuffer]

Right, you won't need a "filter filter" if you have a skimmer and enough live rock. The problem with a regular filter, canister or hang-on-back, is that they trap waste, just like in a freshwater aquarium, where's converted into nitrates, just like in a freshwater aquarium. So, it's no worse than if you were using it in a freshwater setup.

Live rock holds nitrifying bacteria, like a filter cartridge would. However, the skimmer removes a large part of the waste before it even gets to the bacteria. Nitrates build up a lot slower that way.

The reason that a filter isn't considered a good idea in saltwater is that the water changes the remove nitrates are very expensive - salt costs a lot. With a skimmer, you won't need to do water changes as frequently. Over time, the initial cost of a skimmer and lots of live rock is actually less than the amount of money you'll spend on salt and water conditioners over the years. Plus, mixing saltwater is apparently a pain in the butt (never done it myself), because it takes 24 hours, salinity checks, powerheads for mixing, blah, blah, blah, so less water changes is more convenient.

[Jivenjune]

Right, you won't need a "filter filter" if you have a skimmer and enough live rock. The problem with a regular filter, canister or hang-on-back, is that they trap waste, just like in a freshwater aquarium, where's converted into nitrates, just like in a freshwater aquarium. So, it's no worse than if you were using it in a freshwater setup.

Live rock holds nitrifying bacteria, like a filter cartridge would. However, the skimmer removes a large part of the waste before it even gets to the bacteria. Nitrates build up a lot slower that way.

The reason that a filter isn't considered a good idea in saltwater is that the water changes the remove nitrates are very expensive - salt costs a lot. With a skimmer, you won't need to do water changes as frequently. Over time, the initial cost of a skimmer and lots of live rock is actually less than the amount of money you'll spend on salt and water conditioners over the years. Plus, mixing saltwater is apparently a pain in the butt (never done it myself), because it takes 24 hours, salinity checks, powerheads for mixing, blah, blah, blah, so less water changes is more convenient.

Wow, thanks so much. This is exactly what I was looking for. I do want to over filtrate my 60 gallon tank for my two GSPs but I have never actually done full saltwater, so concepts on various beneficial types of filtration have always been somewhat confusing to me. I'm currently acclimating my two GSPs into saltwater salinity; however, I wanted to have the best filtration within a reasonable budget and sumps are a bit out of the question for now.

Are the ceramic disks that they throw inside filters bad in salt water aquariums or do they work properly as they would in a normal freshwater?

[LilGreenPuffer]

Glad to help. It took me forever to get that stuff straight. And it's still a couple more years at least until I can put it to use.

Are the ceramic disks for holding nitrifying bacteria? If so, yeah, sure, they'll work.

You don't need a sump to hold this stuff. You can put it on top. Or you could do a DIY sump, which would be pretty cheap.

[Solace]

I have a few questions on the subject as well.

I got gravel for my aquarium and then immediately realized I hate how it looks compared to sand. What type of sand can I use?
Also where can I buy live rocks? and what exactly is a live rock?

Also would you guys suggest just spending the extra forty bucks and getting a canister filter?

[LilGreenPuffer]

You can use any type of sand, but the kind that's best is either "live sand" (straight from the tank, keep it wet till it's in your tank, don't buy it prepackaged) or aragonite or crushed coral.

Live rock is a chunk of dead coral that comes from the ocean and is covered in coraline algae and small scavengers and invertibrates (AKA "hitchhikers"), and is filled with nitrifying bacteria. It must be kept wet until it gets into your tank, and then it must be cured. Read up on live rock and curing.

Don't use a canister filter for SW. Use a skimmer and live rock. The only reason to use a canister filter is to hold rubble rock, which holds nitrifying bacteria and provides a place for the little no-see-'ems like copepods to breed (they make good food for some fish). If you're using it this way, it's performing some of the fuctions of a sump or refugium. Do a lot of reading on saltwater setups before you do anything. ReefCentral.com has some great newbie articles.

[Jivenjune]

You can use any type of sand, but the kind that's best is either "live sand" (straight from the tank, keep it wet till it's in your tank, don't buy it prepackaged) or aragonite or crushed coral.

Live rock is a chunk of dead coral that comes from the ocean and is covered in coraline algae and small scavengers and invertibrates (AKA "hitchhikers"), and is filled with nitrifying bacteria. It must be kept wet until it gets into your tank, and then it must be cured. Read up on live rock and curing.

Don't use a canister filter for SW. Use a skimmer and live rock. The only reason to use a canister filter is to hold rubble rock, which holds nitrifying bacteria and provides a place for the little no-see-'ems like copepods to breed (they make good food for some fish). If you're using it this way, it's performing some of the fuctions of a sump or refugium. Do a lot of reading on saltwater setups before you do anything. ReefCentral.com has some great newbie articles.

So the live sand that's packed in water probably isn't a good idea? I've always been curious as to how that worked. Generally, whenever I purchase any form of substrate, I do a fair amount of rinsing to cleanse off the residue. However, live sand is often, if not always, packaged in saltwater or some type of liquid. I take it that people are merely suppose to pour the contents directly into their tank upon opening the bag of liquid live sand?

I'm currently just using small sized crushed coral at the moment to maintain a proper PH. If my knowledge serves me correct, nitrifying bacteria grows on all surface area within an aquarium. Is it possible to merely skip past the usage of live rock and balance it out with an equal amount of surface area through substrate usage?

[Solace]

You can use any type of sand, but the kind that's best is either "live sand" (straight from the tank, keep it wet till it's in your tank, don't buy it prepackaged) or aragonite or crushed coral.

Live rock is a chunk of dead coral that comes from the ocean and is covered in coraline algae and small scavengers and invertibrates (AKA "hitchhikers"), and is filled with nitrifying bacteria. It must be kept wet until it gets into your tank, and then it must be cured. Read up on live rock and curing.

Don't use a canister filter for SW. Use a skimmer and live rock. The only reason to use a canister filter is to hold rubble rock, which holds nitrifying bacteria and provides a place for the little no-see-'ems like copepods to breed (they make good food for some fish). If you're using it this way, it's performing some of the fuctions of a sump or refugium. Do a lot of reading on saltwater setups before you do anything. ReefCentral.com has some great newbie articles.

Thank you so much, do you know any place that sells live rock?

Ok, and a protein skimmer is just a rim mount filter that sucks off the top of the water right? It also performs filtration function?
would that be ok since my sg is only 1.004 and will be climbing slowly as the fish grow?

[LilGreenPuffer]

You can use any type of sand, but the kind that's best is either "live sand" (straight from the tank, keep it wet till it's in your tank, don't buy it prepackaged) or aragonite or crushed coral.

Live rock is a chunk of dead coral that comes from the ocean and is covered in coraline algae and small scavengers and invertibrates (AKA "hitchhikers"), and is filled with nitrifying bacteria. It must be kept wet until it gets into your tank, and then it must be cured. Read up on live rock and curing.

Don't use a canister filter for SW. Use a skimmer and live rock. The only reason to use a canister filter is to hold rubble rock, which holds nitrifying bacteria and provides a place for the little no-see-'ems like copepods to breed (they make good food for some fish). If you're using it this way, it's performing some of the fuctions of a sump or refugium. Do a lot of reading on saltwater setups before you do anything. ReefCentral.com has some great newbie articles.

So the live sand that's packed in water probably isn't a good idea? I've always been curious as to how that worked. Generally, whenever I purchase any form of substrate, I do a fair amount of rinsing to cleanse off the residue. However, live sand is often, if not always, packaged in saltwater or some type of liquid. I take it that people are merely suppose to pour the contents directly into their tank upon opening the bag of liquid live sand?

I'm currently just using small sized crushed coral at the moment to maintain a proper PH. If my knowledge serves me correct, nitrifying bacteria grows on all surface area within an aquarium. Is it possible to merely skip past the usage of live rock and balance it out with an equal amount of surface area through substrate usage?

The bacteria in the bags of sand is dead. You need to see it come out of a tank that's either stocked with disease-free fish or is fed ammonia.

Live sand holds a lot of bacteria, but not as much as live rock. I don't know the ins and outs of it; I just know that you can't use live sand as a replacement. What you can do is to add some live rock and some base rock ("dead" rock, live rock that's dry and a lot cheaper) and let the live rock colonize the base rock.

[LilGreenPuffer]

You can use any type of sand, but the kind that's best is either "live sand" (straight from the tank, keep it wet till it's in your tank, don't buy it prepackaged) or aragonite or crushed coral.

Live rock is a chunk of dead coral that comes from the ocean and is covered in coraline algae and small scavengers and invertibrates (AKA "hitchhikers"), and is filled with nitrifying bacteria. It must be kept wet until it gets into your tank, and then it must be cured. Read up on live rock and curing.

Don't use a canister filter for SW. Use a skimmer and live rock. The only reason to use a canister filter is to hold rubble rock, which holds nitrifying bacteria and provides a place for the little no-see-'ems like copepods to breed (they make good food for some fish). If you're using it this way, it's performing some of the fuctions of a sump or refugium. Do a lot of reading on saltwater setups before you do anything. ReefCentral.com has some great newbie articles.

Thank you so much, do you know any place that sells live rock?

Ok, and a protein skimmer is just a rim mount filter that sucks off the top of the water right? It also performs filtration function?
would that be ok since my sg is only 1.004 and will be climbing slowly as the fish grow?

You can get live rock from a local person who's selling some of theirs off (check for a local reef club), or from a LFS, or from an online store, like drsfostersmith.com.

A skimmer won't work until your SG reaches 1.018. Do a little research on how they work.

[Solace]

Yeah, I figured salinity might be an issue as the higher the s.g the more stuff that would float to the top right?
Im just really trying to find the right setup to have to keep these guys healthy.

[Pufferpunk]

And you're doing a great job researching their best care here!

One Q though, where is the pleco living? Not with the puffers, I hope.