Rebound puffer--recommendations?

[Phledge]

Well, Bu stopped swimming today and I know better than to replace him with another Mbu. (At least until I'm in a place, financially and geographically, where I can give him a pool in which to swim.) We loved him best for his very laid-back personality; the only things towards which he was ever aggressive were the crab legs we dangled from the surface and the MTSs hiding in the sand. We'd like another freshwater puffer but we want one who'll be smaller (no more than 10 inches) and non-aggressive to tankmates. Is there such a thing? We're willing to make things a little brackish since we have African cichlids in the 85g that was once Bu's home, but we're not ready for flat-out saltwater. What do y'all think?

[LilGreenPuffer]

The 85 is the only option?

[Phledge]

The 85 is the only option?

We have five tanks: a 10 g that we use for raising snails; a 20 g community with about a dozen neon tetras, eight tiger barbs, and a rainbow gourami (and the only pH-neutral tank); a 40 g with six Africans; a 55 g with seven Africans, two clown botias, and two SAEs; and the 85 g with the description in my hospital post. Right now EVERYONE's happy, and that's not easy to achieve with the Africans! However, we'd be willing to shuffle fish around to make room for (a) new puffer(s) since we already miss that crazy puppy-dog face! I guess I just figured that the 85 would give most any fish enough room to be happy (except, of course, the Mbu).

Also to be considered: spouse is not interested in DPs (quote, with whine--"they're so smaaaaaall").

Right now based on my perusal of the Pedia, I'm thinking SAP? or F8s?

[LilGreenPuffer]

SAPs are shoaling, so you'd need a big group, and I don't think you could fit them anywhere in that mix. Could you set up another 15-20g for a F8?

[Dadof4]

Most of the fresh water puffers that stay on the small side are lurkers or ambush predators that like to stay hidden most of the time. The more active freshwater puffers (Fahaka and Mbu) tend to get on the large side and need a larger tank. LGP is correct that a SAP's are shoaling fish and you could get a very nice group going in an 85 gallon! One thing to take in to account is that SAP's have the highest need for dental care. Even when feeding them crunchy foods daily they sometimes need their teeth trimmed every few months. Will the busy life of a Medical Resident allow time for that if needed? F8's stay relatively small, 3-3.5 inches, and can do well with a few in a large tank without much fighting amongst themselves. They do require low brackish water though and that has to be made with marine salt vs Cichlid lake salts. If you are willing to go to a brackish environ, I would like to suggest looking in to a pair of GSP's or possibly a Ceylon or two. They need a higher brackish environ, close to full marine and eventually will need full marine conditions as an adult, but not immediately.

[Phledge]

LGP is correct that a SAP's are shoaling fish and you could get a very nice group going in an 85 gallon!

So am I understanding that SAP's can't be happy unless there are quite a few of them? How many, minimum, would constitute a shoal?

One thing to take in to account is that SAP's have the highest need for dental care. Even when feeding them crunchy foods daily they sometimes need their teeth trimmed every few months. Will the busy life of a Medical Resident allow time for that if needed?

This is a team effort, but I would definitely be responsible for it since the spouse gets squicked out by doing pet medicine. Definitely something to consider. How long does it usually take? I read the article on puffer dentistry and it doesn't seem like a huge undertaking once you have the equipment and a little experience under your belt, but I know looks can be deceiving...

F8's stay relatively small, 3-3.5 inches, and can do well with a few in a large tank without much fighting amongst themselves. They do require low brackish water though and that has to be made with marine salt vs Cichlid lake salts.

What I'm hearing here is that F8's absolutely cannot be kept with the Africans. We currently don't add any type of salts to the water, so a KH and GH of 300 are numbers straight out of our tap. Would that mess with the F8s' systems (assuming that I don't go all RO on their hineys)?

[Dadof4]

LGP is correct that a SAP's are shoaling fish and you could get a very nice group going in an 85 gallon!

So am I understanding that SAP's can't be happy unless there are quite a few of them? How many, minimum, would constitute a shoal?

One thing to take in to account is that SAP's have the highest need for dental care. Even when feeding them crunchy foods daily they sometimes need their teeth trimmed every few months. Will the busy life of a Medical Resident allow time for that if needed?

This is a team effort, but I would definitely be responsible for it since the spouse gets squicked out by doing pet medicine. Definitely something to consider. How long does it usually take? I read the article on puffer dentistry and it doesn't seem like a huge undertaking once you have the equipment and a little experience under your belt, but I know looks can be deceiving...

F8's stay relatively small, 3-3.5 inches, and can do well with a few in a large tank without much fighting amongst themselves. They do require low brackish water though and that has to be made with marine salt vs Cichlid lake salts.

What I'm hearing here is that F8's absolutely cannot be kept with the Africans. We currently don't add any type of salts to the water, so a KH and GH of 300 are numbers straight out of our tap. Would that mess with the F8s' systems (assuming that I don't go all RO on their hineys)?

You could put an easy 8 SAP's in the 85 gallon. A shoal is 3 or greater. Is this one of your main display tanks? If it is these guys would work wonderfully, they require a very well planted tank and you could aquascape it beautifully! The dentistry, which I have never done, from what I understand can be accomplished quickly once you get to know what you are doing. The fish generally have to be anesthetized (using MS-222 aka Finquel or clove oil) and a few quick snips with cuticle cutters and your done. Someone who has actually done it a few times can tell you a little more accurately than I can.

With the F8's, I would not keep them with the Cichlids because of the big difference in water conditions each species requires. F8's need low brackish water and Cichlids are a pure FW species. Just to refresh, a brackish water biotope is where fresh water rivers and ocean meet (sorry if you know this already) and there are different stages through out that system as you move up the river. So, for the F8's you'd need to be mixing Marine Salt (like Red Sea Ocean Crystals) with tap water to make the environment. To answer your last question directly, your KH and GH would be fine for the F8's and shouldn't mess with their system at all.

[Lil' Swimz$]

EDIT: Oh, wait, I was thinking it was a 30 gallon.

Or you could get a cheap, plastic 5 or lower gallon tank and breed the snails in there and have two dwarf puffer in the 10 gallon. (You could have 3, but I prefer two, 5 gallons each) They only get an inch and the only real tankmates would be ottos.

Personally, I wouldn't keep any puffer with African ciclids, from what I've seen they are fast and would get at the food way before your puffer found it, and can be a little routy (sp?) at times, which wouldn't be the best, especially if you don't want your puffer giving one of them a good nip. Well, there's my two cents.

EDIT: What's wrong with the DP idea?

[Myaj]

I personally don't think puffers would mix well in that setup. SAP's would probably be your only option, and they are very nervous, easily stressed out puffers that would likely get picked on by the cichlids. Plus, SAP's don't really have that puffer cuteness, they move fast and are more sleek, so they might not be what you are looking for.

For what its worth, cichlids like a certain type of "salt" in their water.. but its more of a specific mix of salts and minerals made to mimic which lake system they come from in the wild. It is very different than the "salt" used for making brackish water, which is a mix of salt and minerals to mimic the ocean's content.

I would say if you really want a puffer you're going to have to set up a new system or empty out one of your existing.. puffers and cichlids don't mix too well in general (puffers can give a nasty bite, but they can't really protect themselves or get away from aggressive tankmates because they are fat and slow.. they can dart short distances and puff in defense, but that's too much stress for them long term).

[LilGreenPuffer]

LGP is correct that a SAP's are shoaling fish and you could get a very nice group going in an 85 gallon!

The 85 already has ciclids.

[Dadof4]

LGP is correct that a SAP's are shoaling fish and you could get a very nice group going in an 85 gallon!

The 85 already has ciclids.

I totally missed that.....

[LilGreenPuffer]

See? When am I ever wrong?






(Okay, maybe a lot...)

[Phledge]

Y'all are hilarious.

Okay, so, here's what we did. After sitting down and having several long discussions about what we'd like to see in our tanks, we decided to sell back our community fish and convert our 20 g into a saltwater. Our LFS has a GSP that's already acclimated to SW, as well as a saddleback that lives right next door to him. I know there's very little information about the saddlebacks, but the two fish are approximately the same size and so different in shape; do you think the GSP will go postal on the saddleback?

Edited to clarify: we have NOT bought any fish yet! We're clearing out the 20 g today and adding Bio-Spira and live rock/sand.

[LilGreenPuffer]

Well, actually, there's a bigger problem. GSPs and valentinis (saddlebacks) require a minimum of 30g each. So, the 20g wouldn't work.

[Myaj]

Right, a 20 gallon wouldn't be nearly big enough for both of them. The Toby by itself maybe.. but its not big enough for the GSP even by itself.