Pufferfish acting VERY unusually

[justkeepswimming]

Our puffer fish is acting strangely (not like he did when we first got him). We would appreciate all the help we can get in taking care of him, since we are beginners.

1. pH - 7.5
ammonia, nitrite, salinity - no idea, haven't bought the proper testing supplies yet.

2. 10 gallon tank - no inhabitants except for three feeder fish for an hour today

3. We feed him Tetramin tropical flakes which he doesn't really like, blood worms (1x a day for the last three days), and freeze-dried shrimp (just today). Just changed the water last night. Added two tablespoons of sea salt (dissolved) last night, and another tablespoon of aquarium salt today after he started acting strangely.

4. He was in a smaller 4 gallon tank, but we just transferred him to the 10 gallon tank last night.

5. The aquarium has been set up for less than 24 hours, and we did not cycle it.

We recently bought two green spotted puffer fish from Wal-mart five days ago. The second day, one of the puffer fish had already died. We hadn't realized until we looked up info online that the puffer fish is NOT supposed to be for beginners (which we are). We have aquarium lights and a filter, but we haven't bought a heater yet. We didn't fully cycle the new tank before introducing our puffer fish to it, since we did not know we had to do that.

We added four feeder fish to the tank a couple hours ago to see his reaction (we wanted to keep him with other fish), and he ate one right up. He was fine for an hour, but suddenly he started banging his body against the intake tube repeatedly. He kept that up for at least 15 minutes, with breaks in between. That's when we added another tablespoon of aquarium salt (from instructions online). We also took out the other feeder fish who were only in the aquarium for an hour because we thought he might have gotten a parasite from them. Because we don't have a heater for the tank yet, we set up a desk lamp at one of the corners of the aquarium to heat it up.

Since then, he's stopped beating himself up against the tube, but we need more advice on taking proper care of him.

Another unusual thing we notice is that his color changes often. Once in a while, he gets very dark and muted, including his normally-white belly, but the top of his head is still green. He always returns back to his normal bright color and white belly, but we thought it was unusual. Sometimes his belly might be white, but the surrounding area is darker (the part that transitions into the green spotted side).

Any help would be very appreciated! Thank you!

[LilGreenPuffer]

Welcome to the forum. We'll try to help you save your fish.

Give this article a good read, for starters, and then get some test kits ASAP.

library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/

Also, when you do your next water change, don't add the salt, okay? It's the wrong type. Also, salt for humans can poison fish.

[Pufferpunk]

Please return the feeders--I can guarantee their waste is poisoning your puffer. Definately do a LARGE water change right now & every day, until you can get one of the products listed in the article LGP linked you to.

Read these: library/feeding/feeders/
library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/
library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/

[pufferpuggirl]

I also wouldn't advise feeding tropical flake food to puffer fish, and feeding fish to your Green Spotted puffer is not a very good idea either and could very likely cause your puffer to get worms.
I don't mean to be nasty here, but when you bought these puffers, were they not in a heated tank at the store? Most likely I would say they were .... so what made you think they wouldn't need a heater?

I know you mean well, otherwise you would not be here trying to get help, but I hate to hear about people getting fish, especially puffers, and they know nothing about them. I would certainly say that putting your puffers in a tank that small, with other fish too, is causing most of his problems, mostly being poisoned by all the waste in that tiny little tank. You also didn't mention anything about a filter ... you DO have a filter, don't you?

Read the articles and take any advice that is given to you, maybe, just maybe, your fish will survive, but I would not put money on it.

[Lil' Swimz$]

I would certainly say that putting your puffers in a tank that small, with other fish too, is causing most of his problems, mostly being poisoned by all the waste in that tiny little tank. You also didn't mention anything about a filter ... you DO have a filter, don't you?

We hadn't realized until we looked up info online that the puffer fish is NOT supposed to be for beginners (which we are). We have aquarium lights and a filter, but we haven't bought a heater yet.

Yes, definately read those articles PufferPunk and LilGreen showed you.

Also, when you do your next water change, don't add the salt, okay? It's the wrong type. Also, salt for humans can poison fish.

When did he say anything about table salt? He said a tablespoon but not table salt, as far as I could see. The articles and the others pretty much summed up most of it but I would like to say, your gonning to need a heater, and a thermometer. And as for the salt you'll need to stop it until you get the tank cycled, you get a hydrometer, and the bigger tank. 30 gallons as a minimum is needed as he grows. Then you can look into slowly rising the salinity by .2 a week, as not to kill of the bacteria.

G'luck!

[Lil' Swimz$]

Oh, the reason why table salt is bad for fish is because of the iodine. If you can find non-iodized salt it should work, along as it has no other additives. That's what I use, but aquarium salt's going to be better.

[Dadof4]

Lil' Swimz$ You're starting to understand this more every day! I hate to rain on your parade though...When you raise your SG you need to raise it by .002 not .2 to not kill your filter. Also, table salt is not acceptable in any form, iodized or not. Table salt is pure NaCl and marine salt is a chemical compound of NaCl and many other minerals and there is a huge difference on how it changes (not sure if that's the best word) the water.

I also wouldn't advise feeding tropical flake food to puffer fish, and feeding fish to your Green Spotted puffer is not a very good idea either and could very likely cause your puffer to get worms.
I don't mean to be nasty here, but when you bought these puffers, were they not in a heated tank at the store? Most likely I would say they were .... so what made you think they wouldn't need a heater?

I know you mean well, otherwise you would not be here trying to get help, but I hate to hear about people getting fish, especially puffers, and they know nothing about them. I would certainly say that putting your puffers in a tank that small, with other fish too, is causing most of his problems, mostly being poisoned by all the waste in that tiny little tank. You also didn't mention anything about a filter ... you DO have a filter, don't you?

Read the articles and take any advice that is given to you, maybe, just maybe, your fish will survive, but I would not put money on it.

Ya know, this is the type of thing that absolutely ticks me off. This person, that we have no idea about, ie: age, prior fish keeping experience, where they're located, etc, comes in here obviously realizing that they have a problem and looking for advice and help on how to correct it. Someone takes a swipe at them. We're here to teach people and help them, not lecture, belittle and outright embarrass them. I'd be real surprised if this person comes back at all and ends up with dead fish or even attempts to get back in to the aquarium hobby at all.

I've had serious thoughts of not posting here anymore, as much as I love my puffers and sharing my knowledge with beginners, and this stuff is why.

[Dadof4]

Oh yes, to answer your questions:

Our puffer fish is acting strangely (not like he did when we first got him). We would appreciate all the help we can get in taking care of him, since we are beginners.

Yeah, that's how many people start with puffers. Cute, helicopter like, poor info given by the fish store.....

1. pH - 7.5
ammonia, nitrite, salinity - no idea, haven't bought the proper testing supplies yet.

Need to get those ASAP! I'll explain down the line of your questions.

2. 10 gallon tank - no inhabitants except for three feeder fish for an hour today

These guys need a minimum of 30 gallons. The reason is that they are big waste producers and get 6 inches long and the size around of a Nerf Football. More water gives more room for waste to be diluted and obviously more swim room.

3. We feed him Tetramin tropical flakes which he doesn't really like, blood worms (1x a day for the last three days), and freeze-dried shrimp (just today). Just changed the water last night. Added two tablespoons of sea salt (dissolved) last night, and another tablespoon of aquarium salt today after he started acting strangely.

90% of puffers require a diet of crustaceans like shrimp, snails, crab, etc. and are predators. Flake food doesn't carry enough nutrients for puffers. They also need the shells of these foods to keep their teeth from overgrowing, the shell wears down the teeth. The other 10% are piscavores and require shellfish and live homebread feeders.

4. He was in a smaller 4 gallon tank, but we just transferred him to the 10 gallon tank last night.

Well, a step in the right direction, look on Craigs list and ebay for nice, cheap, used tanks of the size you need.

5. The aquarium has been set up for less than 24 hours, and we did not cycle it.

Definitely read the emergency cycling article asap. Change your 80% of your water daily to eliminate waste. Get your test kit so you can monitor your water parameters while you cycle. If you have a friend that has an established filter, go get some fresh used filter media and add it to your filter, or get some of they substrate and place it on the bottom of your tank in a mesh bag. That will help seed the tank and filter with nitrifying bacteria and get the cycle going.

We recently bought two green spotted puffer fish from Wal-mart five days ago. The second day, one of the puffer fish had already died. We hadn't realized until we looked up info online that the puffer fish is NOT supposed to be for beginners (which we are). We have aquarium lights and a filter, but we haven't bought a heater yet. We didn't fully cycle the new tank before introducing our puffer fish to it, since we did not know we had to do that.

We added four feeder fish to the tank a couple hours ago to see his reaction (we wanted to keep him with other fish), and he ate one right up. He was fine for an hour, but suddenly he started banging his body against the intake tube repeatedly. He kept that up for at least 15 minutes, with breaks in between. That's when we added another tablespoon of aquarium salt (from instructions online). We also took out the other feeder fish who were only in the aquarium for an hour because we thought he might have gotten a parasite from them. Because we don't have a heater for the tank yet, we set up a desk lamp at one of the corners of the aquarium to heat it up.

Since then, he's stopped beating himself up against the tube, but we need more advice on taking proper care of him.

Another unusual thing we notice is that his color changes often. Once in a while, he gets very dark and muted, including his normally-white belly, but the top of his head is still green. He always returns back to his normal bright color and white belly, but we thought it was unusual. Sometimes his belly might be white, but the surrounding area is darker (the part that transitions into the green spotted side).

Any help would be very appreciated! Thank you!

Most of your problems are because of an uncycled tank and improper size tank. If you can correct these problems real quick you may be able to save him. GSP's show stress by changing color, they go dark gray on their bellies and face. One other thing, change the water with fresh water for now, forget about salt until things settle down. Adding the salt can complicate things right now and add a little more stress to his environment.

[Lil' Swimz$]

I knew it was it had a point and a 2. Thanks though. I try, I try.

[Lil' Swimz$]

Oh, and I'm talking about for aquarium salt. Not using non-iodized salt for marine, just for aquarium salt.

[justkeepswimming]

Thank you so much for all the help! The puffer fish were gifts, so we had no idea the puffer fish would be this hard to take care of. Unfortunately, we couldn't return him for a beginner fish. But we want to keep him as healthy and happy as possible.

Does aquarium salt work for salting the water, or does it have to be marine salt?

We are scouting for at least a 30 gallon tank on craigslist, and we will be visiting the pet store tomorrow for test supplies, tank heater, fresh cycled filter media (for cycling the tank)/nitrifying bacteria sample/cycled tank samples, marine salt, small snails and clams. Is there anything else we are missing?

Is it advisable to get him a tank mate (either a big docile fish, angel fish of same size, or another puffer) in the future to keep him company? We're worried about what kind of fish he can get along with, but he seems so bored in the tank.

We will change his water daily until his tank becomes fully cycled. So while we cycle the tank, we need to change the water (50-100%) every day for the next 4 to 8 weeks, right?

Once again, thank you everyone for all the advice. It has been wonderfully helpful. If there is any additional advice, it would be much appreciated.

[qtrhorse89]

Yeah fish don't make good gifts that's for sure. Not your fault though and your trying to fix it so that's what counts.

So far you are doing everything right. For the salt you'll eventually need marine salt but let's not worry about that right now. For now let's focus on a bigger tank and getting it cycled. Once that's straightened out you can worry about the salt. Get everything you've already listed from the fish store and keep an eye on those water parameters. Basically if you register ammonia or nitite a water change is in order. Don't forget to use a decholorinator on the new water. It'll take a while but if you keep up with those water changes hopefully the little guy will pull through.

To answer the question about tank mates. Puffers don't neccasarily get lonely. There is a great article in the library on puffers and tankmates, so you could check that out. For right now i'd just worry about getting his tank cycled. Another fish is just going to add to the waste production and stress out the puffer. Most puffers really enjoy heavily decorated tanks. Lots of stuff to poke around in. That should keep him occupied.

[LilGreenPuffer]

You'll need marine salt for the water. You will also need a hydrometer or a refractometer for measuring the salinity. A powerhead will help you mix the salt, and you'll need five-gallon buckets for mixing in.

The best test kits are the API liquid kits. You'll need ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH tests. You should probably get some dewormer and some Melafix, too. Tons of decorations with hidey-holes are essential, too.

He doesn't need tankmates. He'll be fine on his own. After he's got a lot of decorations to explore, he won't be bored anymore.

While you're cycling, test the water daily for ammonia and nitrites, and if they are present, do a water change. This will probably be daily. If you get filter media, though, it should take much less time than 4-8 weeks.

Wait for the cycle to finish before you start adding salt.

Edit - sorry, qtrhorse89! Didn't see your post there!

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, you must use marine salt for making BW. It is not true though that table salt is bad for fish. We use Sodium chloride for treating skin issues like fungus & even parasites, like ich. I actually regurlarly add iodine to my reef tank. The amount of iodine in table salt will not harm your tank, in the amounts we use.
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article77.html

All great advise here, I'm glad you found us!

[pufferpuggirl]

I was not taking a SWIPE at justkeepswimming, and I did say that I thought they meant well, and I was just expressing my feelings that too many people buy puffers without researching what they need. Pardon me for caring too much about the fish. I did also say I wasn't trying to be mean.

I suppose no one has been a little miffed about something before and expressed that. I also recognised that justkeepswimming was doing the right thing by coming on the forum and asking questions.

My apologies if I offended JUSTKEEPSWIMMING