The salt is a good idea. You can effectively treat fin rot and other bacterial infections with it - it's the Melafix/Pimafix alternative for labarynth fish.
About the tummy, has he eaten, or could he have eaten? Any access to food?
I would put him in his old tank with the major salinity change ASAP - don't worry about cycling, just do frequent water changes - while keeping the other tank fed on ammonia. Continue the medication, too.
GSP with Mouth Problems
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5301
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)
RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32987
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
I agree--this could be the end result of stress on the immune system from improper SG for so long.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:33 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: GSP "Puffy" RIP old friend 1999-2009
GSPs "Flash" & "Lionel" - in a 55 UK Gallon Bow front Marine Tank with sump. - Location (country): United Kingdom
- Location: Devon, UK
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
I have just had a vet come around to see him - he is a friend of mine who last saw Puffy about 2 months ago. His concern was that his mouth seems even wider open than before. (hard for me to judge, as I see him every day). He believes that the most likely cause, is a tumour. If this is the case, then there is no cure for him. He feels that it may be kindest to euthanase him sooner rather than later. I am going to see if I can get him to eat & if not............ 
He has left me with a small syringe of pentoject (a euthanasia drug), so that I can anaesthetise him with MS222, then inject when he is asleep.
Whatever people feel about the fact that he has not been in BW, being the cause of his problems is fine. But, he has lived for 10 healthy years with me - maybe he would have lived longer with someone else, or maybe he would have lived for 2 months with someone else, who knows.
I'll let you know the outcome anyway.
He has left me with a small syringe of pentoject (a euthanasia drug), so that I can anaesthetise him with MS222, then inject when he is asleep.
Whatever people feel about the fact that he has not been in BW, being the cause of his problems is fine. But, he has lived for 10 healthy years with me - maybe he would have lived longer with someone else, or maybe he would have lived for 2 months with someone else, who knows.
I'll let you know the outcome anyway.
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Lil' Swimz$
- Mbu Puffer
- Posts: 1686
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:26 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: Lorteti - Peaches
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
Bigfatfish, I'm so sorry..
Ha ha, he he! DAncE whEn yoU're HAPpppy! He he he! DAnce, danCE, DANCe!
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Dadof4
- Tech Team
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:50 am
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: 1 GSP (Microfiche) RIP, 1 Monotrete Turgidus (Leon) in a 30gal. 1 Monotrete suvattii in a 40 gal FW. 120 gallon BW with 3 juvenile Dragon Gobies (so cool). 55 gal with a 2" GSP named Hank. 180 gallon being set up for a Fahaka in the next few months!
- Location (country): United States
- Location: North Wisconsin
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
I don't think anyone will think poorly of you because you kept him in freshwater, I do not at least. You did what you were told to do by the LFS, and if you're like me, you grew up thinking that the LFS people were the authority on all things pet related (next to the vet). You did what you knew to do and did it to the best you could, then you sought to better his life style after you found the proper information. What more could anyone expect? The initial information you received on his care is from 10 years ago and if I remember correctly puffers were just starting to become popular in the pet trade and not that much was known, at least for pet owner there wasn't much information.bigfatfish wrote: Whatever people feel about the fact that he has not been in BW, being the cause of his problems is fine. But, he has lived for 10 healthy years with me - maybe he would have lived longer with someone else, or maybe he would have lived for 2 months with someone else, who knows.
I'll let you know the outcome anyway.
I'm very sorry this turned out to be something that is most likely going to be fatal. It breaks my heart knowing you may have to lose a friend of 10 years.
"Darwin swings...annnnnnd a miss. Boy Jim, Chuck's suffered at the plate tonight. He's 0 for 3 and I'm not sure he's recovered from that shoulder pull a few weeks ago. I'll bet the front office is re-thinking that contract."
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LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5301
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)
RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
I for one don't think badly of you for keeping him in fresh water. You did what you thought was right, and when you found out it was wrong, you set out immediately to do right by him. It's awful that you might have to euthanize him, but it might be the right thing.
A tumor does make sense - as it grows, it would put more and more pressure on a certain spot, causing his mouth to open more and more. That does sound reasonable. It would also be a totally good reason to put him down. If he has a tumor and is unable to eat, you shouldn't feel bad if that's what you decide to do. Well, you probably would anyway, but you could still remember that you did the right thing.
A tumor does make sense - as it grows, it would put more and more pressure on a certain spot, causing his mouth to open more and more. That does sound reasonable. It would also be a totally good reason to put him down. If he has a tumor and is unable to eat, you shouldn't feel bad if that's what you decide to do. Well, you probably would anyway, but you could still remember that you did the right thing.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
-
bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:33 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: GSP "Puffy" RIP old friend 1999-2009
GSPs "Flash" & "Lionel" - in a 55 UK Gallon Bow front Marine Tank with sump. - Location (country): United Kingdom
- Location: Devon, UK
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
Just to let those who have been following this thread know, that today when I switched the tank on, I knew that the time was right to let him go. I am going to get one of the vets to do a quick post-mortem & I will post any results later.
Thank you to everyone who has offered advice & support.
Thank you to everyone who has offered advice & support.
-
diverchic
- Green Spotted Puffer
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:50 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Parent to:
No puffers since moving to work on a boat but looking to get some again now I am back on land. - Location (country): London, UK
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
Bigfatfish,
I am sorry for your loss. From the fact that you had the puffer for 10 years I would say that you took very good care of him (irrispective of water type).
Thinking of you
I am sorry for your loss. From the fact that you had the puffer for 10 years I would say that you took very good care of him (irrispective of water type).
Thinking of you
-
LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5301
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)
RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
-
bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:33 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: GSP "Puffy" RIP old friend 1999-2009
GSPs "Flash" & "Lionel" - in a 55 UK Gallon Bow front Marine Tank with sump. - Location (country): United Kingdom
- Location: Devon, UK
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
It would seem that some sort of tumour was the beginning of his problems. There was a small mass at the corner of his mouth, that was stopping it closing properly. The ?tendons/ligaments which work his mouth had become calcified (hardened) due to lack of use because he was unable to close his mouth properly. The vet feels that the tumour probably came first, which is why his teeth got overgrown. The fungus on his fins was probably due to secondary infection from all the handling that he had to have towards the end. The only thing, we're not sure about, is the growths in his mouth - maybe secondaries to the main mass.
I don't feel so horrible now, knowing that ultimately there was nothing that could have been done for him.
I will look back on the last 10 years & remember his cheeky little face begging for food..........& smile
I don't feel so horrible now, knowing that ultimately there was nothing that could have been done for him.
I will look back on the last 10 years & remember his cheeky little face begging for food..........& smile
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Lil' Swimz$
- Mbu Puffer
- Posts: 1686
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:26 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: Lorteti - Peaches
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
That's the spirit!Ha ha, he he! DAncE whEn yoU're HAPpppy! He he he! DAnce, danCE, DANCe!
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32987
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
So sorry for your loss... It is great that you had a vet friend to help you out with this. I hope you continue to keep puffers, you are great at it!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
pufferpuggirl
- Mbu Puffer
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:04 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffs & Stuff:
1 x M Abei
1 x M Turgidus
1 x T Palembangensis
1 x M Baileyii
1 x T Schoutedeni
1 x T Leiurus
1 x T Miurus
Rainbow crab
crayfish - Location (country): Yorkshire, GB
- Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
I have to say that reading this has made me feel very sad, and yes, I did cry, especially when looking at the pictures of the dear puffer with his mouth open. I'm glad that he's no longer suffering, but I'm sure that bigfatfish is missing him and no wonder, after having him all those years-- which in itself, is a really fantastic thing -- I would think it would be very sad to lose such a puffer.
My thoughts are with you bigfatfish
My thoughts are with you bigfatfish
"Puffer .... man's best friend?"
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bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:33 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: GSP "Puffy" RIP old friend 1999-2009
GSPs "Flash" & "Lionel" - in a 55 UK Gallon Bow front Marine Tank with sump. - Location (country): United Kingdom
- Location: Devon, UK
Re: GSP with Mouth Problems
I don't think he was in pain or suffering until the very end. It all happened over such a long period of time - it didn't happen overnight - which is why he was able to cope & continue hunting & eating right up until 2 days before the end.
Thank you EVERYONE for your kind words & for the PMs. Of course I will miss him, but I expect he is chasing some monster snail or fighting an earthworm as we speak. RIP little Puffy. xx
Thank you EVERYONE for your kind words & for the PMs. Of course I will miss him, but I expect he is chasing some monster snail or fighting an earthworm as we speak. RIP little Puffy. xx