Tetra Safestart for full Cycle?

[liquid88]

Hey guys n girls,


I recently set up a 29G tank. Its curently freshwater but I plan to raise the SG overtime after I purchase livestock (Hopefully 2 F8s). Its current reading are:
Temp: 84 F
Ammonia: 4-5 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:5-10 ppm
pH: 8.2

I have a Penguin Biowheel 200 and an AquaTech 10-15 runnning on it. I added Tetra Safestart on Thrusday (18th) and the readings haven't changed yet. Also I don't have anyone near me who I can get filter media/squeezings from so this was my only option.

Is it possible for me to run a complete cycle this way without any water changes or would u suggest that I change the water every so often? Even when cycling the tank with livestock and Safestart many aquarium owners still get some ammonia and nitrite readings. I know this would be harmful for a puffer so I opted not to buy one yet.

[Pufferpunk]

Without any ammonia to feed that bacteria, it will be useless within 24-48 hours. Or are you planning on a fishless cycle with it? IMO, you should have gotten the fish & added the product for an instant cycle.

[coldmachineUK]

I've read about, and bought a bottle of, SafeStart which is available here in Europe some time ago; it doesn't compare or compete remotely with the sorts of products available in North America such as biospira. I wouldn't trust it, myself, particularly since it's not refrigerated and I doubt very much in the ability of any product claiming to provide 'live' bacteria which isn't.

Tried and tested methods like fishless cycling work perfectly already so there's no real need to rely on bottled solutions. I cycle all my tanks this way, including my former Malawi cichlid tank where I used raw market prawns left to rot in the external canister filter followed by a sufficient water change pre-introduction of fish once levels were correct. If you don't have a canister you can put them in a net bag in the tank and allow them to decompose there, or you can take the more nose-friendly but also more particular route of dosing with ammonia. If you do a quick search of the forum there should be plenty on this topic.

There's also an article here: library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/

HTH!

[Pufferpunk]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17151&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... =safestart

[liquid88]

I'm doing a fisless cycle. Marine warehouse aquarium stores their Safetart in the fridge along with Biospira.
There was 4-5 ppm of ammonia in the tank when I added the Safestart. The levels just haven't changed since then.

[Pufferpunk]

Gotta wonder if the stuff really works then...

[LilGreenPuffer]

Are there nitrates in your water source? If no, then it would seem that there's some cycling going on, since you do have 'trates.

[liquid88]

Nope. Nirtares are 5-10 from the tap!

[liquid88]

I'm thinking that maybe the ammonia was too much for the bacteria to handle or maybe that particular bottle was a dud. I'll go back this week and tell them that it didn't work. They guy that cashed me out gave me all sorts of tips n seemed like a reasonable person.

Maybe I'll just empty the tank n purchase the fish and the safestart at the same time. I was just tyring to avoid that constant water change stage when cycling a new tank with livestock in it and possibly harming them.

[LilGreenPuffer]

Funny, other people have liked this stuff. I would try a second bottle, then if it doesn't work, please let us know.

[liquid88]

Wow...just when all hope was lost! I tested the tanks levels again today.
Ammonia: 4ppm
Nitrite: .25ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

I guess patience truly IS a virtue. The tank has been kinda cloudy since I set it up on Wed of last week. I added the ammonia and safestart the next day. Yesterday the tank seemed to be clearing up and today it's crystal clear. All this happened seemingly overnight with no outside media added. I guess the safestart worked but it took a while (4 days) to show any signs of working.

[Idontknow]

Just wondering where you put the safe start because you need to put some in the filter and not just the water. Most people put the whole bottle in the filter.

With safestart you will need to have the fish in there to keep a constant source of ammonia, unless you want to keep adding ammonia everyday.

[liquid88]

The guy told me just to put it in the tank and it did not specify on the bottle. Now that you mention it makes alot more sense to add it to the filter. I guess the bacteria were just floating around the tank for the past couple days and finally settled in the filter.

I haven't been adding any additional ammonia because I thought 4-5ppm would be sufficient for the bacteria to feed on initially. My plan was to wait until the ammonia got down to about 1-2 ppm and dose it back up to 4-5 ppm. Does this make sense or would I really have to add ammonia every single day?

[Idontknow]

Your plan sounds almost right, but according to puffer punk's article, you need to add the ammonia to bring it back up to 5ppm everyday at the same time.

"Now add the ammonia in such a quantity to raise ammonia test results to ~5ppm. This is best achieved by simply adding a few drops, and testing. Adding a few more drops, and testing again. Raise the ammonia test results to a reading of ~5ppm.

Now, add the ammonia at the same time every day raising the results to ~5ppm until you find detectable nitrite in the water. "

Just a suggestion, next time if you want to use safestart, I would skip the fishless cycle and just put the fish in when you put the safestart. The fish will be your ammonia source. I have done this four 5 tanks already with no problems.

[Pufferpunk]

I didn't write that article--just posted it. I always suggest adding the stuff to the filter. I don't know why it doesn't say that on the directons... it should.