GSP problem

[bodicea]

Water parameters - 8.4 pH (argonite substrate), Zero Ammonia, Zero Nitrite, 10 ppm Nitrates and Just started raising the salinity, does not register on my hydrometer yet. Temperature is about 80f

2) 25 Tank with one GSP Had two one died the day after coming home.

3) he is not eating well, I gave him a crushed snail as he did not seem to know what to do with the whole one, I fed him some frozen blood worms, which he seemed so-so about. I went out and found some mosquito larvea, he tried two and then left the rest (I have a bucket I put out to grow the larvae and I wash them in tap water before I feed them) and (not all at once I gave him the snail on day one, the blood worms day two and the mosquito larvae this am). I am being careful about not overfeeding him Ii change the water either 50 % once a week or when the Mitrates get over 10 ppm. I use Aqua plus for declorination. I did not know htat we have cholramines here so I think initially I was not using enugh, as it calls for double the dose for chloramines than for chlorine.

4) I added one Java fern in the tank in th last week.

5)The aquarium has been set up for about 4 months, I cycled it with 8 zebra danios. I was at zero amonia zero nitrite and 5 ppm nitrates for about 2 weeks before I got tw F8's. Both died ...one the day after I got them ,the other three days later. The LFS replaced the F8's with GSP's(told me they were the same thing and that they were fresh water ). It took about two weeks for the replacements to come in so I "fed" the biofilter like there were two F8's in the tank. One of the GSP's died by the day after putting them in the tank...the other one is still here but is not eating very well (or maybe not at all). Last night I noticed a red spot on his side. I need new glasses (I spend all my money on fish stuff. know what I mean?) so it is hard to clearly see what it is. I think it is in front of his fin, and maybe a degradation of his gill?? I am not to sure of puffer anatomy, and I am trying to get a picture of it, but as you can imagine, he is not cooperating in that regard.

So any ideas on his lack of appetite? I have seen him pooping brown stuff the last couple of days so I think he must be eating something. and what medications would you use on him if he has an infection? Also I worry that the ph is too high...it is right at the top of the range of my test kit for hig range ph? Should I change the subtsrate? I will continue to try and get a picture of his side, and thanks in advance forthe help.

Jan

[LilGreenPuffer]

Get that picture if you can. It could be a bacterial infection, or an injury.

How long have you had it? I wonder if the fish could all have come home with a disease they picked up at the LFS.

What kind of substrate do you have? I doubt it would be the cause of this problem.

[bodicea]

substrate is argonite...so 8.4 is OK for ph?

[LilGreenPuffer]

Sure, that pH is fine, as long as there are no wild swings up or down. It's the change that causes the stress, not the actual level, with some exceptions (i.e. discus, ciclids). Argonite should be fine, and will be great if you plan to take this little guy to marine one day.

[bodicea]

I am also worried about his lack of appetite...I have some frozen brine shrimp but I don't want to add them if the chances are he wont eat them...He is already leaving enough food that needs to be cleaned up...

Jan

[marksrush]

What does his belly look like? Is it bright white, or is it gray or black? Is it flat, rounded, or pinched-in? What's his activity level? Is he all beat-up looking, with ragged fins etc., or does he otherwise look good? What shape is that red spot? Is it almost perfectly round, or irregular?

I would go ahead and get the specific gravity up to 1.002. You can increase it that much without risking your biological filter, and the fish can certainly take it without problem and will in fact benefit greatly.

[bodicea]

[quote="marksrush"]What does his belly look like? Is it bright white, or is it gray or black? Is it flat, rounded, or pinched-in? What's his activity level? Is he all beat-up looking, with ragged fins etc., or does he otherwise look good? What shape is that red spot? Is it almost perfectly round, or irregular?

His belly looks white to me, it is definatly not black, and not really gray either. It is flat with a very very slight roundness to it...not pinched in at all. His tail fin is a little beat up just along the edge but his skin looks good, as do the rest of his fins. The red spot is kind of a half moon area and is slighly indented, almost like part of his gill is gone. The other side has nothing that looks similar. He is pretty active...he does stop to doze occaisionaly near the botton of the tank where there is very little current. He seems to be swimming through the stream from the filter which pushes him forward suddenly. I can't tell if he is enjoying this or if he is just wandering around and wanders into the stream. I have read many posts that say GSP are voracious eaters, but I have not seen him eat much of anything in the last 4 days. I crushed a snail and he did not eat it, so I have put in a bit of frozen bloodworms every day...He does not seem interested in this when I put it in, but I think he must be eating something??? I have seen him poop, it looked like normal brown fish poop to me. I find his finicky behaviour really worrying! I have certanly gotten very attached to him that is for sure...I dread looking in his tank in the morning, holding my breath that he hasn;t died.

Oh, and I thought salt would help so I did a 25% water change and I raised the SG to 001 today and I will raise it again tomorrow to 002

[bodicea]

So...no need to worry...he died....that makes 4 i have killed in the last month...I have no idea what I am doing wrong...think I should give up?

Jan

[bodicea]

I have 3 dwarf puffers in a 10 gallon that do just fine...makes me think it's not the water? Man am I bummed out now

[julianchan]

Don't give up....I would try and get to the bottom of what is going on...puffers are just too awesome to give up on...

Personally, seeing that puffer 1 died so fast, I am inclined to think that there was something wrong before they even got to you. Unless there was something toxic in your tank that you are not aware of, it seems like you are taking all the right steps.

Maybe try a different store for your puffer, if that is possible? You might wanna think about recycling the tank if you think that the puffers that died had any kind of disease.

Good luck!

[Dadof4]

I see you had them in a 25 gallon tank. I wonder if they fought and ended up killing eachother? They are pretty territorial ....One GSP needs 30+ gallons to dilute the waste products and cruising room. With them being stressed coming in to a new environment a small tussel may have been all it took to kill one then the other....?

[LilGreenPuffer]

That half-moon pink shape sounds like it actually was the gill...

Don't give up. Start over - clean tank, new cycle, different store. If you don't have another LFS, you could adopt a GSP from greenspottedpuffer.net.

[bodicea]

I looked closely at the body this morning and he seemed normal on the outside. I looked for the mark on his side and I do think it was the edge of his gill. But as everything had kind of flattened out it did not look the same, it had no redness to it anymore, though it did look somewhat different than his other side. The only consistent thing is that they died right after a water change. However, I have a community tank with some pretty sensitive fish in it ( a black ghost knife for example which requires really pristine water) and I have no problems...in the last year I had one otto die that was it...and I have a tank with three dwarf puffers and they have never had a problem. I do have another store I could buy from. The interesting thing is that the puffers I got were never unpacked at my LFS...I went and picked them up as soon as they came in so they were in the packaging from the supplier...maybe I should order another from them and get them to keep it for a week to see if it survives?

And, I know that GSP's need a bigger tank...I had originally bought two F8's and when they died the LFS said they would replace them...they replaced them with the GSP's which they insisted were the same thing!..If they had lived I would have cycled a bigger tank for them. They were very small, about an inch, so I think they were OK in the 25 for now and I never saw them being agressive, but the first one died within the first 24 hours so???

So if I re-cycle the tank, what would I do...empty it, clean it and start over?

Thanks for all your advice...I think I will try one more time with an F8...if I kill that one off I think I will do puffers a favour and leave them alone

A very discouraged
Jan

[Myaj]

I would agree, see if you can find a different store.

GSP's and Figure 8 puffers are not really bred in captivity (they've just figured out how to do GSP's and it takes artificial insemination, so its still a ways away from hobbiests breeding them!), so every one is caught from the wild, transported, transported some more, sorted and transported some more.. eventually making it to your local store and being dropped into questionable conditions there.

Its a very stressful situation for a fish that's grown up in the wild, and made much worse if the store isn't the greatest or doesn't have the right setup for them. So it might be worth a try to go to a different store and see if you have better luck there.

[LilGreenPuffer]

If you re-cycle the tank, then, yes, clean it out. When I got a used one, I hosed it down, filled it with Oxy-Clean (yep, laundry detergent) and water, and let the filter run on it for a few days, then hosed it down again.