Newb Cycling Question

[qtrhorse89]

First off hello to all, I'm a zoology major (emphasis on mammals) at university that has been keeping FW tanks on and off for the past ten years or so. I'm new to brackish water and puffers. I'm doing an internship at a museum in the fish collections and got interested in brackish fish. I originally wanted a flat fish but then I saw the puffers and changed my mind lol. I settled on a figure 8 as the little guys are completely charming and ideal for my small apartment size.

Now as soon as I get my tank cycled I'll be set to go. It's a ten gallon,...temporary it'll be upgraded soon to a larger tank, with aragonite substrate. PH is 8.0, Nitrates and Nitrites are at 0 and Ammonia is at 1-1.5 ppm. Also my sp is at 1.004. I have a saltwater API liquid test kit. Now my problem is I've always used fish to cycle my tanks didn't realize there was another alternative until recently. I refuse to use a sensitive little puffer to cycle the tank and nothing else will be going in with him. It's been running for about 5 days now. I don't have much experience with cycling especially brackish water although I don't think there is much difference.

I've got my temp upped to 83 F and the aquarium store gave me some of their dirty water and filters to jump start it. I dumped in the water and wringed the filters out in the tank. I've been throwing in food every day or so to feed the bacteria. I've been testing for the past four days or so and I find it odd that my readings haven't changed at all. I had thought they would fluxuate at least a little?

Also on a random note I tested my tap water and it tests as having the same ammonia amounts as my tank water. I'm not really sure what's up with that. I know that tap water can test positive for ammonia because of the chloramine in it but I thought it would be less than the tank water. I tested twice and got the same results. Is this going to affect my ability to keep my puffer happy? Is there anyway I can keep nudging my cycle. I'm afraid patience is not one of my virtures lol. Any advice is appreciated.

[TheBlueMeanies]

well i'm kind of in the same situation i have a 55gallon tank cycling right now but its fresh water and what i have noticed is patience is key and keep testing to know where your levels are at. i have been looking at live bacteria you can add and the only products i have found that get good reviews are Bio-Spira,Tetra Safe Start, and Dr. Tims One and Only they all have LIVE bacteria and claim to cycle a tank much quicker. good luck with your tank hope this helps. I haven't use any of these but my LFS has Bio-Spira so i think i will be getting that and I'll let you know how that works out for me.

[Myaj]

Well, considering your tap water is reading the same as your tests... are your tests still good? Meaning, have they expired or are they just old? That could be one thing throwing off your results.

If that's not it, I'm sure you just need to be patient. Salinity changes of more than .002 will crash a biofilter, so unless the media you got from the store (and you need media, like gravel, plants, filter media, etc, not just squeezings and dirty water) was from a tank that was within .002 of your current salinity 1.004, it would have just died in the transfer anyways.

If you can find it and can spend the money, the "instant cycle" products TheBlueMeanies listed above will work. Things like "Cycle" will not.

Otherwise you just need patience.. keep feeding that tank.

[qtrhorse89]

Thanks for the replies. I read about using the filter media instead of just squeezing it after I threw out the filters As for whether the filters came from a brackish tank or not I'm not sure. I think they did because the guy at the store knew I was setting up a brackish tank *shrugs* who knows. The test kit is brand new, I bought the saltwater version just for this tank. I'm going to try again tonight with both the tank and the tap water and we'll see what we get. I do have snails though, the trumpet snail things. They must of rode in on the dirty water or something. I'm debating on whether to remove them or not. I've gotten conflicting results on the web. Half says it'll break their teeth and the other half says they'll eat the juvies and leave the larger ones alone. I'll try and be patient but I might wind up just springing for the bio-spira.

[qtrhorse89]

Okay so still no movement on the tank parameters. I did test the test kit though. I tested tank water, tap water, and distilled water and got 1.0, .5 , and 0 respectively so I know the test kit is good. The little bacterias obviously just don't think my tank is good enough for em. lol So now it's just a waiting game again. I might buy the biospira in a few days if I don't see any improvement. For a 1.004 sp should I get fresh water or salt water biospira? Also do you still do fish less cycling or do you get the fish? I would prefer to continue with my fishless cycling and just keep feeding my empty tank.

[Pufferpunk]

How much ammonia (ppm) are you adding/day? Are you following the article in our Library? Be sure to find out what SG the puffers you are getting are in at the store now, so you can cycle at that SG (usually FW though).

[qtrhorse89]

They keep them at 1.004 +/- .001 which is what my SP is at already. I really like this place they seem to know what they are doing with the puffers. I've just been 'feeding the tank' daily. Although I'm tempted to just go find some ammonia product to use. I have read the article in the library...I read them all actually. I had hoped that using food would be adequate, but perhaps not.

EDIT
Just realized I didn't actually answer both questions. I don't know how many ppm i'm adding. I've been adding enough flake food to feed maybe three or four average sized tetras every day or so. I test the ammonia levels twice a day and so far it hasn't deviated from 1.0 whatsoever, nor have nitrates and nitrites appeared.

[Myaj]

If you get Biospira, you are supposed to be able to add the fish right away, but I think I'd be too nervous to do that myself and would probably keep adding food for a few days and watch the numbers. I've always cycled tanks with live plants/filters stolen from other tanks and actually have never done the fishless ammonia wait and see type of cycle.

[qtrhorse89]

So I typed this all up and then the computer crashed so I have to type it again, sadly my hands are tired so you guys get the condensed version

I got biospira (impatience is my middle name lol) and it seemed to work. Perfect tank parameters for two days. So I went to get the puffer, apparently adding him sparked a mini cycle. I've been doing huge water changes and treating the water with Prime to nuetralize everything. I know it only locks it for 24 hrs so Ive been keeping an eye on the time in between dosings. My last test was showing .25 ammonia (what my tap water tests as so I'm stuck here), trace amounts of nitrite ( a purple tinge if you squint), and about 5 in nitrates ( was 10 before the 50% wc). I know the cycle is running because I have nitrates and trace nitrites. My guess would be that there is just not enough bacteria to keep up with him and the tap water so I have to just wait for it to multiply. Until then water changes and Prime are on the schedule. I feel awful for this, it's what I get for trusting a product even one with great reviews. Now my figure 8 is paying the price.

So far he seems fine. Bright eyes, bright white belly, lots of interest in his surroundings, hearty appetite ( he's terrorized the few snails in there and ate some mysis shrimp this morning) and a nice bright coloration. I fed him with forceps to minimize waste, it seems to work great, he loves the attention. Picked up the art of begging in under five minutes. He's a natural lol. I named him Hikaru (I figured since he's an asian puffer he needed an asian name lol). He's not afriad of anything (i changed the water and the little rascal took after the tank vacuum, decided to see if it tasted good lol). He also loves his reflection. He's fascinated by it. The first few hours that's all he did was try to figure out who was looking back at him lol. He seems to have settled down now. I have never seen a fish with so much personality I really didn't think it was possible. It's one thing reading about it but quite another to experience it. He sulks.....if he begs and doesn't get food he'll go hide under a ledge and turn his back on me and then a few minutes he'll peek back at me to see what I'm doing. I can honestly say I'm hooked on puffers now, all the other fish i've ever had pale in comparison.

So me gushing and bragging about the newest family member aside...is there any suggestions on how to handle this blasted minicycle with minimal stress to poor Hikaru. He doesn't seem to mind the w/c. In fact i think they amuse him what with him playing with the vaccuum. Right now he's playing in the water current. I've got enough filter power for a 20 gal on my 10-12 gal so it's got a nice current and good filtration and I'm going next week to pick up an air stone for more aeration. The only thing I know to do is water changes and to keep treating with Prime until it stabilizes. Any help would be awesome! Thanks

[By_a_coo]

I think you're doing everything right. Now, you have to wait that mini-cycle to be completed.

[qtrhorse89]

So a quick update....

Still dong water changes and dosing with Prime. The tank is slowly but surely stabilizing out from it's little minicycle. This morning ammonia was down and both nitrites and nitrates were up so this is good. Hikaru is doing great. Right now he's digesting a lovely shrimp dinner and an almost dinner of my finger. He decided to try and sample while I was changing water and vacuuming up gunk off the sand. Can't blame him, when he usually sees my fingers near the surface it means he's getting fed. He can really book it when he wants to. He got mad at me when i jerked my hand out of the water and went and sulked behind his little cave. I've never seen a fish sulk before lol. He'd peek over the edge every so often and glare at me before ducking back down.

Which leads to a question...how badly does it hurt to get nipped by one of these fellows? Are we talking a little stinging or the need for stitches. He's small but i've seen what he can do to a snail so I'm kind of wondering. I don't really know what he'd do if I ever gave him the chance to approach my fingers in the water and I'm not sure I have the nerve to hold still long enough to find out. He will bob his head out of the water at me if he decides I'm to slow with providing the next shrimp. It's incredibly cute! I've been using forceps to feed him to minimize waste. He caught on quick.

[Myaj]

A figure 8? Just a pinch, maybe a blood blister at most if they grab a soft spot.

[qtrhorse89]

Well that's a relief. I take worse from my ferrets than a little pinching so I can handle that lol. I'm going to try hand feeding him some clam tonight and see how well he takes to it. The lfs tried to get me to buy him shrimp pellets I suppose that's what they were feeding him ick. That's what they gave him when I asked to see him feed before buying him. He ate it so either he was reallllllly hungry or is one really non picky puffer. *shrug*

[lilacamy931]

Aw he sounds an absolute darling - do we get to have pictures soon, or will he sulk

He sounds like he has oodles of personality and you seem a really good mommy!

[qtrhorse89]

Awwww thanks. I'm really trying my best. I was gonna get batteries for the camera at the store tonight so I'll try and get a few of him. I'd love to get one of him poking his head out of the water. He does it if I'm too slow on feeding lol