Not sure what to do.

[Obsidian]

Hello,
I am new to this whole puffer thing so I am hoping that I can get some good guidance here. I would like to make my 20 high a puffer tank. I like the idea of dwarf puffers but I am sort of wanting something bigger so that I can see them better. I would like it to be full freshwater. I am hoping that I can get some advice on what would be good to keep and how many of them would work in a 20H. If I really have to I can get a 20L but would prefer to keep the tank I have. I will have Tahitian moon sand substrate, at least one cave, lots of wood and some silk plants (no live plants for me I love to kill them).

Thanks for any help you can give,

Obsidian

[Homer]

If you haven't already done so, you may want to look under the learn tab and check out the pufferpedia for more info on Dwarf Puffers, but basically speaking you could have 3 dwarf puffers in your tank at a ratio of 1 male to 2 Females... alternately you could possibly keep a single C.irrubesco or single C.salivator in that tank possibly... just really depends on if you are willing to get a bigger tank, or the 20G is going to be your final tank for a while?

[LilGreenPuffer]

Hi! Yep, check out the PufferPedia.

I always forget how many gallons a 20H holds, but I think it's not actually 20. Someone else can tell you that.

DPs are always great. You could also have a single SAP, but I wouldn't reccomend it, since they prefer to be kept in groups, 3+, and they like a long tank with a bigger footprint because they swim so much.

[Obsidian]

The most I could do is go with a 20 long over a 20 high, which would increase the footprint. I would consider a 30 gallon if there would be enough "pay off." Could I put 3 SAP's in a 30 gallon?

If I go with the 3 DP's (in the 20 gallon) could I put something in with them?

I have looked at the puffer-pedia (several times) and would be happy with pretty much any of them. They are all pretty darn adorable I like the SAPs because of the possibility of more than one in a tank, but I am not opposed to a single in a tank as long as I will be able to see it. That's my biggest concern with the dwarfs. I am not sure I would be able to see them very well.

With the tank that I have or a 20 long do I have more options with brackish? I would be willing to go that route as well. I am really kind of open as long as I can have a cool puffer. And from what I can tell they are all cool. I am growing snails in my 10 gallon Betta tank. (It's just him and a dwarf pleco-L-15, and now the pond snails).

In the puffer-pedia it gives an idea of what would be okay, I am wanting practical knowledge about what would be okay.

Favorites: Fresh: SAP and GP
Brackish: Figure 8; GSP.

[Homer]

The info in the pufferpedia is pretty accurate when it comes to min. tank size for a puffer to be able to live comfortably but to answer your question; basically if you had say a 20G long you could keep 3 dwarfs with maybe an otto and ghost shrimp in a planted tank? since SAP's are normally best kept in groups of at least 3 so even a 30G will be a tight fit... on the other hand if your willing to go low end brackish and get a 30G instead you could try 2 F8's which are pretty active puffers, or you could get 1 GSP, although these guys will require higher salinity as it grows all the way up to high end brackish/marine... So i guess it depends on what sort of tank you want to setup that will help you decide what puffer you ultimately get?

[LilGreenPuffer]

Yeah, try not to go below the minimum tank size given in the PufferPedia. The only acceptable changes I know of are for dwarf puffers, which can live in 3g each, and Congos - I heard something about 20g being fine for them.

[Obsidian]

Okay I have a 20 gallon long tank, so that is what I am going to go with. I couldn't really justify going bigger since I still couldn't even get 3 SAP's in there. I would really enjoy 3 SAPs. (Maybe in a different house, but not this tiny apartment- I already have 4 tanks here!!!)

What is a Congo? I couldn't find any under that common name int he pufferpedia. I would like to know more about that one

Otherwise I am looking at dwarf puffers. If I go with those I may get more than 3. What would be the arguments for and against getting a 4th or a 5th? I wouldn't even consider going more than 5. I would like at least 4 though and 5 is tempting. I know they do not need a lot of space per puffer so mostly what I am wanting to know is why there should only be 3 in a 20 long. (If I went with 4 it would be 1 male 3 females).

Would the puffers eat the shrimp?

Arguments for planted over silk? I have no knowledge of planted and I am worried about the algae mess. I have 3 low light plants in my 10 gallon and have hair algae in there (and 2 of those 3 don't even qualify as plants anymore they are so small). I have no idea why. It's not that much so I am not overly concerned about it but if I plant a tank a lot I worry about all of that part.I can make some really nice looking silk set ups.

Do puffers suck in sand and spit it back out? (Like a goldfish sucks in the gravel and spits it back out in it's quest for food). I am trying to come up with some nice aquascaping but if the sand is going to be that disturbed I want to avoid some routes.

I will probably have more questions later

[Homer]

First off here is a link to the Congo Puffer: Tetraodon miurus, although just so you know this is one of the less active Lurker species of puffer which will most probably remain buried beneath the sand more time than above but still an amazing puffer all the same...

For the male to female ratio of Dwarfs, normally people would suggest the 1:2 - 1:3 ratio as a way to diffuse the males aggressiveness between the female puffers so that hes not always picking on just one... so i guess in theory at least, i can't see anything wrong with a 1:4 ratio??? as for them eating the shrimp, i think as long as the shrimp are big enough they should be fine with them, although there is always that off chance they could possibly kill them??? so wait for some one maybe with more dwarf puffer experience to answer your questions

[coldmachineUK]

Arguments for planted over silk? I have no knowledge of planted and I am worried about the algae mess. I have 3 low light plants in my 10 gallon and have hair algae in there (and 2 of those 3 don't even qualify as plants anymore they are so small). I have no idea why. It's not that much so I am not overly concerned about it but if I plant a tank a lot I worry about all of that part.I can make some really nice looking silk set ups.

Why not go for a mix? Algae is usually a sign of too many nutrients in the water. If you plant the tank up then the plants will use the nutrients and the algae won't get a look in so it can help limit algae growth.

[Obsidian]

Is there someplace I can get the puffers that I can know I am getting males or females? I Don't want to do this only to end up with a bunch of males and only one female.

[pufferpuggirl]

When I went to get more DP's, I asked the guy at the LFS to get me females, and he just looked at me.

Besides most stores have juveniles, and when they are young, it's difficult to tell if they are males or females.

Good luck on that one!

[LilGreenPuffer]

For the male to female ratio of Dwarfs, normally people would suggest the 1:2 - 1:3 ratio as a way to diffuse the males aggressiveness between the female puffers so that hes not always picking on just one... so i guess in theory at least, i can't see anything wrong with a 1:4 ratio??? as for them eating the shrimp, i think as long as the shrimp are big enough they should be fine with them, although there is always that off chance they could possibly kill them??? so wait for some one maybe with more dwarf puffer experience to answer your questions

The male-female ratio is mainly a way of keeping males from fighting with each other. If you only have one male, a single female is fine, unless you just have an aggressive male. I think your male would be very happy with a harem of four all to himself, though!

The shrimp - might be a problem, might not. I don't have that problem, but others do. It usually depends on the individual fish's personality.

As for a way to ensure a ratio, it's almost impossible. One way would be to locate a breeder, who would most likely be experienced in sexing juvies. I got lucky - when I asked my pet store to order me a pair, I got a pair. Not everyone is that lucky. I would ask the pet store who the local breeder is (if there is one in the area) and go directly to them, or ask them to order adults. If they don't know how to tell an adult, tell them you want one-inch fish. That's sure to be an adult size. If all else fails, the first marking to show up on males is usually the bright yellow belly. That will ensure that you have a male, but a lack of one won't be a positve sign that you have a female. There's an article on sexing DPs in the Library that might help you.

[Myaj]

In a 20 gallon long, I think you could easily have up to 6 dwarf puffers (with no tankmates).

There's also the modestus/silus, they are very bright colored, active puffers, freshwater, one would do well in a 20 gallon tank if I remember correctly. Very nippy though, so no tankmates.

As far as live plants vs fake, there are ways to keep it simple but you'd want to do some reading on keeping live plants. You'd want a decent amount of lighting, more than comes standard on a tank usually. For a 20 Long, you'd want a minimum of 30 watts of lighting, better would be 40-50 watts.. so that's a place to start. If you do want to go with live plants, they puffers will definately appreciate it.

If you go with the dwarves, live or fake, get LOTS of plants.. they love to explore. Make it a jungle in there.

[Obsidian]

You guys rock
I will be making at least one deep cave and probably some others out of rocks. Would it be best to make it a larger pile of rocks all in one area, or should I make separate little caves/piles?

[Myaj]

My dwarves were never interested in caves, so I dont' really know what to tell you there...