stars and stripes puffer sick?

[tennisball]

Hi all. I just posted this in the meet and greet section before I realzied there was a hospital forum. I am going to cut and paste it here, and add a bit more info. Thanks for any advise!

It is 135 gallon tank with a 40gallon sump. It was up and running for several years, but I bought and moved it May 2. We moved 100+ gallons of exisiting water, as well as the live and base rock. It ran for 2 weeks before I installed a protien skimmer (the prev owner did not use one)

I have been replacing 10 gallons of the water weekly (twice the first week) when I vaccum the crushed coral. Mostly my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all neg, but I did have some slight nitrite/nitrate levels last week. (.25 and 5). I thought it might be somehow related to the newly installed skimmer, but now I think it was from the dead and rotting cowrie snail I removed on Saturday. Someone told me the levels were likely from the Fluval filter, so I cleaned the bioballs and replaced the filters on that too. My water is crystal clear now, and my pH is 7.8, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite negative. SG= 1.021.

From my introduction post:

I bought/moved an already established predator tank about 3 weeks ago. In it are 2 puffers-- a green stars and stripes (Kiwi), a Valentini puffer (Olivander), a picasso trigger, a white tail trigger, a lion fish and a wolf eel. The previous owner did tell me that Kiwi didn't look so good some times, but that I shouldn't worry about him. But I do worry about him. He looks such a ghastly colour sometimes, and the last few days hasn't eaten much. I have been feeding a variety of seafood, but when he has eaten he seems to mostly like the shrimp or octopus. I read he should have somethign hard to wear down his teeth, so tonight I put in the crabs legs. He seemed a bit interested in that, but the triggers kept going after the same food (even though I spread it out), and he eventually gave up. I am hoping he eats more after they go to bed. Are these fish nocturnal?

I think Kiwi may be intimidated by the other tank inhabitants, but, I'm not sure I'm right (I don't know him well enough) and I have nowhere else to move him even if he is intimidated. My dog, Maverick, is obsessed with Kiwi, I think because he looks like his tennis ball, with wings. I worry that he is intimidated by the dog watching him so much, but oddly enough Kiwi sometimes come out of hiding spots to sit in front of Maverick, so go figure. But sometimes he hides from him too.

I am going to try and post a picture. If anyone can tell me if he looks normal, and his behaviour is normal, please let me know. Thanks,
What he looks like now:


What he used to look like (and still looks like occassionally):

[trekenk]

Hello and welcome to the puffer forum. You might be on the right track with him being intimidated another forum member might also have a few other ideas. I don't know if you realize that the stars and stripes ( kind of looks like a reticular puffer) alone needs 180gl tank. Your tank as it is now is way over stocked, so you might want to put some thought into which fish to keep or how many more tanks you are prepared to set up. Really not a good mix of fish in there, good luck.

[blondenblue]

i could be wrong but your stars and stripes i think is actually a reticularis, It looks nearly identical to mine! cant help really with the shy and lack of eating as mine is always the first to get the food, but is also the biggest in the tank.
your is very pretty tho!

[edmlfc1]

blondenblue is right, you don't have a stars and stripes you have an Arothron reticularis.

Here's the link in pufferpedia:

ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Reticularis/


I don't know anything about these puffer's but if he acts like my S&S then yes they can be intimidated by more aggressive fish. I have my S&S alone, I did have him with 2 GSP's and a Wrasse. One of the GSP's passed then the Wrasse and the remaining GSP started to nip on him. He's about 10x larger than both of them but he was getting so stressed, I had to remove them. Now it's just him and my snowflake eel, and they are both very happy. You might want to look into rehousing either the puffer or the other fish.

[edmlfc1]

If you need some time to get another tank set up, here's what you do: Go to Lowe's or Home Depot get a light cover (eggcrate) cut it down to fit in your tank and make a divider. Use the rock to hold the divider in place. This will keep the other fish from picking on the puffer and it will buy you some time. I had to do this in my tank.

[tennisball]

Thank you everyone. Well, this is enlightening... finding out I don't really have a stars and stripes puffer. I googled s&S puffers, and noticed they looked a bit different, but I figured there must be some variety in how they look. Is this an unusual type of puffer?

Well, I'm not really sure WHAT to do with him. They all came with the tank, which I've had less than a month, I can't see shopping for a new tank this soon. I got the impression from the previous owner (who had the tank for quite awhile) that everyone got along famously. Maybe they did, and it's just the move adding the extra stress.

I didn't see him eat today again. Maybe he did though. I don't like to leave food in the tank, but with him not eating at feeding time, I have been leaving the remains of the crab's legs in the tank and hoping that he gets some after the others go to sleep (I feed right before bed). The triggers are pretty predictable about parking themselves as soon as the lights are turned off. Tonight after I turned the light off I stayed in the room for a bit, and I saw Kiwi come flying out of his hiding spot, straight up. I think he hit the roof and I was glad I had closed the lid! He has these occassional spastic moments where his movements are jerky and fast, and I swear he looks like he's swearing. He settled down after that, and I watched him to see if he ate but I couldn't be sure. I'm worried his teeth are going to get too long if he doesn't eat. When that happens, is it really noticable?

[edmlfc1]

If his teeth are overgrown he would look like a beaver. I would go ahead and put a divider in there to give him less stress and keep any other fish from picking on him. Have you read the feeding article in the library? Do you know what kind of food the previous owner fed the puffer?

This is not an unusal type of puffer, if you look up in the left corner of this page....that is the puffer you have. I have also heard them called "Scribble Puffer". I was able to see one full grown at a lfs, it was amazing! They get huge.

[tennisball]

This is not an unusal type of puffer, if you look up in the left corner of this page....that is the puffer you have. I have also heard them called "Scribble Puffer". .

Yes, I did notice that. That was how I knew I had come to the right place to ask my questions.

The prev owner gave me the bag of frozen assorted food she was feeding, so I have been feeding a combination of that, as well as a couple things I bought. I bought a big bag of smelts, but they don't seem to like those so much (but neither do they like the Seafood Medley the preve ownwer was feeding). I am also giving a vitamin several times a week.

I will try to get the tank divided, at least for feeding.

Yes, I read the article. But when I googled that name, the pictures that displayed did not look like my puffer.

[edmlfc1]

I see what you mean. I just googled it and a stars & stripes picture came up. There's a lot of misinformation out there. And yes you have come to the right place for the correct information.

[trekenk]

I understand that you may not be prepared at this time to upgrade or get another tank but in all honesty you really do need to give this some consideration for the health of all fish involved.

[tennisball]

Yes, I have been giving this considerable consideration. I'm not sure what the long term solution is, but I've been looking for a quaranteen tank for a short term solution. But even shorter term, I think I need to find a way to split the tank. It is hard to come up with anything that can go in and come out again after feeding because of the glass lid, the railings and the light on top. But that really would be ideal. A venetian blind maybe.

On the upside, Kiwi seemed much more active and social tonight. I just love him when he's like that, he almost looks like he's trying to tell me something. I was hoping it was 'feed me', but I still didn't see him eat tonight.

Also concerning, now that he's finally out of hiding, I observe that some skin seems to be peeling off. It looks to me like maybe he tried to stuff his round body past an opening that was too small, but I'm not sure. I'm also worried about his tail, which is quite black at the end, and when he opened it up today looks quite frayed. There is also a reddish area at the start of his tail, close to his body. I tried to get some pictures, but these aren't so great. You can kind of see a grey stripe across his body in the one picture. Is this anything to worry about?

[trekenk]

Yes, I have been giving this considerable consideration. I'm not sure what the long term solution is, but I've been looking for a quaranteen tank for a short term solution. But even shorter term, I think I need to find a way to split the tank. It is hard to come up with anything that can go in and come out again after feeding because of the glass lid, the railings and the light on top. But that really would be ideal. A venetian blind maybe.

Hello again tennisball so glad you are coming to the puffer forum for answer. What we are trying to tell you here is not just that you have the wrong type of fish together but also that your tank is overstocked. Believe me when I tell you I do know all about the reticularis puffer as the logo fish at the top of the page was mine. I had to make a heart wrenching decision to move him to a large 300 gallon tank of a clients of mine due to his size. Not an easy decision on my part by all means, but only fair to the fish. What happens when tanks are overstocked is that your puffer runs a high risk of having his growth stunned which in turns shortens their life span considerable. Also puffer put out alot of waste and are very mess fish and are very sensitive to poor water conditions. Even if you are doing 25% water changes once a week this would not be enough. As far as what he looks like now you might want to try adding some melifix for those wounds, the first picture he/she is not looking the greatest. Some other members might have more of an idea of what is going on with him/her.

[tennisball]

Actually I have the space for a 2-300 gallon tank, and will certainly keep that in mind as Kiwi grows. I just couldn't sneak another tank in that size so soon.

In the meantime, I have moved Kiwi to a hospital tank, and so far I've only given him Melafix. He continues to worsen. I think it may have begun with an injury, but I think it's something more now. Should I try some Marycyn Plus? I also have something called Fungus Cure, but it says it's only for freshwater fish.

Not the greatest video, but here's what he looks like, and what he's doing. He doesn't do this all the time, but more and more he is hanging at the top of the tank, looking like he's gasping. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

[Sponge bob]

What on the top of him in the video?

[Myaj]

Okay, I'm not a disease expert by any means but that sure looks like the disease that people have posted in the past that nearly always kills the fish. Starts out with those white patches of skin.. I know there's been a couple porc's posted in the last couple months with it.

What is it called though... vibro? Very serious if that's what it really is.