SAP Questions

[lilacamy931]

Hello All
As you know my litte tank has been housed with 4 DPs, I absolutely love them. I have a 160litre tank (42us gallon) which I am eyeing to set up sooner than later!

1. original idea was to set up a singular GSP - I am for now liking the idea of freshwater, so am considering other avenues.

2. Another idea was to get female bettas and set up a tank with possiblities of breeding later (still like but...)

3. The latest and best idea (to me) is to get some SAPs!!! I spent an hour on the bus to get to my fish store to stock up on stuff and they had them in, they are the cutest! But a couple of questions as always before considering properly.

a) for that size tank would be able to get...3 SAPS? I was considering get 2 SAPs and perhaps adding the dwarfs in with them (obviously heavily planting loads to keep all parties interested). Have read elsewhere it is a bit touch and go if both get on, but would the bioload be too much with this?

b) trimming teeth - if they have a constant source and daily diet of snails with other food can this likelihood be limited? I am currently setting a tank up for ramshorn snails ready to breed.

c) Tank - it is a 3foot print which I have read is best for them?

d) Plants - there is an extreme limited supply locally, may have to consider ordering online, want to ask you Ukers out there any good resources and anyone, have no idea on plants anyone have recommended sites that are helpful for a beginner and the basics on how to look after them? (will be off to google momentarily )

urm....think that is it oh oh! Is £20 rather a lot for one SAP or is that a average price? (Pricing doesn't really matter, but with my current DPs saved a total of £18 getting them further away).

Anyways thanks! xx

[coldmachineUK]

Hi there

I'm not sure I'd mix DPs and SAPs. DPs are quite excitable little things and SAPs are generally very docile and easy going. I think the SAPs would possibly be terrorised.

In a 160L (42G) you could go with a group of 5 I would say. I previously kept a group of 3 in a 36G without problems. Provided there is plenty of interesting aquascaping going on (inc. plants - especially floating plants) then you'll keep them interested in their surroundings.

Trimming teeth, even if you regularly feed snails and other hard foods, is a necessary evil. Get prepared for DIY dentistry: there's an article in the library which will help. Ramshorn aren't really the best bet: the snail needs to be no larger than the puffer's eye so you're better with smaller, common, pond snails probably. At least, that's what I find.

I used to order my plants here in the UK from Greenline Aquatic Plants but they recently folded, unfortunately, and the new management don't offer the sort of stock they used to offer. You could try Java Plants - which I've heard good things about - but my own experience with them wasn't great (order lost, replacement delayed, plants arrived in a real mess).

£20 is a fair whack for one SAP. I paid £5 each for mine. Where are you looking for them?

[lilacamy931]

Hi coldmachineUK! thanks for replying.

I am based in Bournemouth, pretty limited on shops. It is a place called Southern Aquatics, it isn't the best (when first went there it was amazing but have learnt since). Today there was a large tank full of dead fish. They have the SAPs for £19.99 some look healthy but most are ill or not eating. If decide on these for real will source them elsewhere (there is a place in Wool that does very well on reputation plus have a £20 voucher so will try to source here).

Can I ask as you are based in the UK? What are your methods for trimming their teeth? As far as my research skills go we don't seem to have Finquel and MS222 seems prescript only (have contacted a company but unlikely they will supply to an individual) and obviously clove oil seems bad rep for brain damage. I would obviously have nail clippers ready but how do you go about it? (any info would be great).

I was thinking of 3 as the Library does recommend 15g per SAP but would love to have 5!

There would be oodles of plants - probably mixture of real and plastic (I have no idea how to care for live ones and will research it, but really need an idiots guide). I have also heard good things on the Javas both fern and moss.

THANKS!!!!!(p.s. as everyone will know really want to research and source any specifics to ensure can handle certain maintenance ) My choice for the tank was F8, GSP and SAP and really would rather not go with salt at the moment.

EDIT: Just read Pufferpunks really informative article, it seems scary but do able with the right sedative)

[coldmachineUK]

I use clove oil (and learned the hard way not to use plastic containers to administer it); as you say, MS222 is really hard to come by in the UK - it's expensive, and I think there's only one company here who distributes and AFAIK it's not to individuals.
Use a glass container for the anaesthetic; plastic will retain the oil and future trimmings may end up resulting in an overdose (as I discovered). The long-term effects of clove oil are, in my opinion, a risk to the health and wellbeing of your fish but this is anecdotal and clove oil has been used for a long time by hobbyists. It's by far the least attractive option but if it's the only one then it's the only one.

Also, don't use nail clippers. You need cuticle clippers. I got mine from Boots and they work a treat.

In terms of stock per volume: SAPs are less about volume of tank water and more about the length and what's going on inside the tank. They love swimming, they love a nice current, and they love exploring decor. Floating plants never ceased to intrigue mine: go for Amazon frogbit if you can find any. If you have these things then you'll be fine with a group of ~5; just keep on top of water changes (but this goes without saying whatever you do).

Oh, and I meant Java Plants the company, not Java plants the moss/fern

[lilacamy931]

Doh! LOL - Thanks for that - Java Plants THE COMPANY! (can you tell I really am blond )

I also meant cuticle (the scissory ones) but couldn't remember the name. I am seeing if can import Finquel or get a prescrip but may have to get the Clove Oil and be prepared for the long term effects. I had read about plastic retaining in its pores..OH NO - did you lose one through this? Sorry for your loss..I would get glass or use the plastic once and throw away after each use (economically probably go with the glass )

The DP tank I set up with some more plants and plan to add a little more later on, if turn the bigger tank to a SAP one (likelihood is I will!) then it is going to be planted to the hilt! This tank is my birthday present and so getting everyone to help me get the right stuff (parents getting me a good strong filter was going to go with the Fluval 205 but may go next size up for a stronger current, my partner already part bought the tank for me and will get me some decoration, his parents will help with the plants, and my friends want to give me home warming gifts for them - though piratey things aren't my theme )So even though the birthday is September, will be setting up lots sooner! (I am very lucky indeed x).

Floating plants - have been looking in all the stores over the weekend as wanted some for the DP tank to add a little more cover (as they get startled first thing with the light). No luck so far so will try that place (Thank yoU!!!)

Thanks for all the good information coldmachineUK - really appreciated

[coldmachineUK]

No problem, you're welcome!

You'll have to post photos once it's all set up and your new puffers are comfortably settled - can't wait to see. I love SAPs, they're hilarious in their own (very different) way compared with other puffers. I'd say, whilst your other sorts of puffer are more 'intelligent', SAPs are like (I'd imagine) kids on espresso

[lilacamy931]

When I saw them in the local, they remined me of hyper chihuahuas!! Plan to set tank up August time and allow to cycle for about 3-4 weeks with help of bacteria from the smaller tank, then get the SAPs around September time - have much more reading to do before then .

It is good to talk to another puff goer in the UK to know where others source things locally! Piccys will be added!